Caribbean economies seem to be big trouble

TTCLIFEMEMBER

everyday working man
'Mixed' economy, eh? Can you name me a Canadian city of 300,000 with a more diversified economy than the Bahamas?

Like Singapore, and other small countries with sense, we do not need 'tons of resources'. We only need to focus on our areas of comparative advantage (tourism, international services etc.) in order to thrive.

You honestly have a dodgy understanding of economics if you think the Bahamas or Barbados will be well served to join up with Jamaica and others just to be a bigger political unit.
The fact that you are comparing a Canadian city (a small Canadian city mind you) to your entire country is more reason why I believe what I believe. There is no Canadian city of 300,000 I can think of that believes that it makes more sense to become their own separate nation. They seem to realize that being part of a larger nation makes more sense as they benefit from the larger nation's mixed economy. The vast majority of English speaking Caribbean islands don't even have close to 300,000 people yet they want to remain separate but they are willing to put all their eggs in the tourism basket. There is a difference in the mentality of a small Canadian city versus a Caribbean nation.

You bring up Singapore. Singapore has 5 million people living in it. Singapore has a mixed economy. Singapore exports more than in imports. Bahamas has 300,000 people. Bahamas is mostly dependent on tourism. Bahamas imports more than it exports. So, if ever a day comes (and hopefully it doesn't) that Americans find another playground other than the Bahamas, then Bahamas is in trouble. These other tourism dependent smaller islands are in trouble right now because tourists have found other playgrounds but they refuse to see the light.

To your third point, I think the Bahamas and other tourism dependent islands are so far into their cycle of dependence, they (and you) will never see why unity with other islands makes sense. The islands are too busy competing with each other for tourist attention. That's the difference here in Canada. Every province has its' role and they work with each other for the most part. If the P.E.I. is suffering and Alberta is flourishing, revenue generated from Alberta will be used to help the P.E.I. In the Caribbean, when another Caribbean island suffers and another island is flourishing, the flourishing island does little to help the suffering island and then, has the nerve to b!tch and complain when people from the suffering island immigrate to the flourishing island. So, when I think about it, how can I expect you to understand political unity and economic unity with your competition ? I can't.
 
The fact that you are comparing a Canadian city (a small Canadian city mind you) to your entire country is more reason why I believe what I believe. There is no Canadian city of 300,000 I can think of that believes that it makes more sense to become their own separate nation. They seem to realize that being part of a larger nation makes more sense as they benefit from the larger nation's mixed economy. The vast majority of English speaking Caribbean islands don't even have close to 300,000 people yet they want to remain separate but they are willing to put all their eggs in the tourism basket. There is a difference in the mentality of a small Canadian city versus a Caribbean nation.

You bring up Singapore. Singapore has 5 million people living in it. Singapore has a mixed economy. Singapore exports more than in imports. Bahamas has 300,000 people. Bahamas is mostly dependent on tourism. Bahamas imports more than it exports. So, if ever a day comes (and hopefully it doesn't) that Americans find another playground other than the Bahamas, then Bahamas is in trouble. These other tourism dependent smaller islands are in trouble right now because tourists have found other playgrounds but they refuse to see the light.

To your third point, I think the Bahamas and other tourism dependent islands are so far into their cycle of dependence, they (and you) will never see why unity with other islands makes sense. The islands are too busy competing with each other for tourist attention. That's the difference here in Canada. Every province has its' role and they work with each other for the most part. If the P.E.I. is suffering and Alberta is flourishing, revenue generated from Alberta will be used to help the P.E.I. In the Caribbean, when another Caribbean island suffers and another island is flourishing, the flourishing island does little to help the suffering island and then, has the nerve to b!tch and complain when people from the suffering island immigrate to the flourishing island. So, when I think about it, how can I expect you to understand political unity and economic unity with your competition ? I can't.
If i could like this ten million times i will. If tourism was the panacea for a great economy then Jamaica would have been a giant of an economy as they have been consistently in the top 3 tourist spots in the region for decades.

why not have all the islands coming together to start working on improving sectors?
 

robblaten

New member
The fact that you are comparing a Canadian city (a small Canadian city mind you) to your entire country is more reason why I believe what I believe. There is no Canadian city of 300,000 I can think of that believes that it makes more sense to become their own separate nation. They seem to realize that being part of a larger nation makes more sense as they benefit from the larger nation's mixed economy. The vast majority of English speaking Caribbean islands don't even have close to 300,000 people yet they want to remain separate but they are willing to put all their eggs in the tourism basket. There is a difference in the mentality of a small Canadian city versus a Caribbean nation.

You bring up Singapore. Singapore has 5 million people living in it. Singapore has a mixed economy. Singapore exports more than in imports. Bahamas has 300,000 people. Bahamas is mostly dependent on tourism. Bahamas imports more than it exports. So, if ever a day comes (and hopefully it doesn't) that Americans find another playground other than the Bahamas, then Bahamas is in trouble. These other tourism dependent smaller islands are in trouble right now because tourists have found other playgrounds but they refuse to see the light.

To your third point, I think the Bahamas and other tourism dependent islands are so far into their cycle of dependence, they (and you) will never see why unity with other islands makes sense. The islands are too busy competing with each other for tourist attention. That's the difference here in Canada. Every province has its' role and they work with each other for the most part. If the P.E.I. is suffering and Alberta is flourishing, revenue generated from Alberta will be used to help the P.E.I. In the Caribbean, when another Caribbean island suffers and another island is flourishing, the flourishing island does little to help the suffering island and then, has the nerve to b!tch and complain when people from the suffering island immigrate to the flourishing island. So, when I think about it, how can I expect you to understand political unity and economic unity with your competition ? I can't.
The shallowness of your understanding of economics is only matched by the shallowness of your understanding of tourism.

You ask how I can compare a canadian city of 300,000 to my country. THAT IS THE ONLY RATIONAL COMPARISON TO MAKE. It is as if you fixate around the word 'country' and so you feel a tiny place that is essentially a city state surronding by outliers should be essentially a MICROCOSM of a larger, more complex political unit, like Canada.

If is stupid beyond words to compare the Bahamas to Canada. A far better comparison is the Bahamas with Orlando. When you are talking economics, you do not compare country to country, you compare ECONOMY TO ECONOMY. The Bahamas (like Singapore) cannot be compared to Canada, and yes, the Bahamas even less so, because it is 15 times smaller than Singapore. If you do not understand that an economy of that size and model cannot support manufacturing, then you are truly lost and deluded. It is the attempts to deny their comparative advantage and make themselves microcosms of larger national economies that explains the utter failure of your countries and their 'brilliant' statesmen, from Manley to Barrow to Williams.

The Bahamas following its area of comparative advantage (internationally traded services) has allowed it not only to far outpace the rest economically, but also allowed its economy to naturally and productively diversify, rather than the forced/subsidised 'diversification' that people like you have in mind when you drool over singapore's 'mixed' economy.

Now let's look at what 'mixed' sectors now exist in the Bahamas: a massive international financial services industry (which is not an offshore tax haven), the 4th largest international shipping registry, the largest container port on the eastern Seaboard of the USA, the largest aviation and (locally owned) private airlines sector in the region by far). All these and more result from focusing on being a small and globally integrated services sector economy. It has worked since the 1950s and yes, I am pretty sure it always will.

Now to tourism. It is clear from your comments that you envision the tourism industry in passive terms. As if you just sit there smiling and wait until rich foreigners come amuse themselves in your 'playground'. That may describe parts of the west indies but it definitely does not describe the Bahamas, whose tourism industry is more diversified that the whole economies of the rest of the region.

Tourism (as we have in the Bahamas, Las Vegas or Macau) is an innovative international business that looks increasingly to emerging markets, rather than just rich people looking to play on a beach. Most of our business comes from conventions, sports tourism, gaming, group travel etc.

As an example, in october and november (the slowest part of the year), Atlantis, our largest resort property, countered the downturn by contracting with the college Basketball association in the USA and hosting the 'battle for atlantis', championship held in the resorts excellent facilities, beginning 3 years ago. The first year they attracted 7000 room nights to the destination. By the third year it had grown to 70,000.

Similarly, the Ministry of Tourism has restarted nassau speed week car racing event from the 1960s, which accounts for thousands of nights. On a regular basis, the country hosts massive conventions of all kinds, not to mention the recession-proof gaming side of the business.

It is not passive like the primitive image you have in your head. In involves government ensuring facilities and infrastructure on a scale and of a quality that mark out the destination as an international business destination.

Y'all in the west indies are always 50 years too late. In the 60's you laughed at us for tourism and financial services. By the 90's most of you were clumsily trying to copy us.

But the problem all along has been the primitive and totally erroneous view you have of tourism. You probably think it only produces waiter jobs. In fact the reason our middle class is so big is because it produces such a huge number of well paid jobs, from marine biologists to lawyers (like me) to accountants, to architects to managers and directors of the huge multinationals that exist here because of it.

But don't believe me if you like. Keep doing what your doing, integrate in CSME, keep growing bananas and digging oil and keep migrating to cold-ass New York and Canada when it keeps failing you.
 
Robblaten I am sick of your attitude, you are condescending and disrespectful. Is this how all you Bahamians look at us Caribbean people?
 

bktrini305

Registered User
trinidad and guyana can never work,what nonsense idea is this? f u whoever is the cunny who even utter such blasphemy from your mouth!

trinidad although having two of the same major ethnic groups as Guyana never had racial violence in its history,

the development of trinidad is more afro creole base with significant indian influence, esp with foods

guyana's development of its culture is indian based with influence from african, Guyana is an indian country that should not be joined with us, we dont need their baggage

I was suggesting that Guyana, Trinidad, SVG, Grenada and MAYBE Barbados have economies that complement each other in some sort of "Tan Gram" way. (with Tobago, SVG and Grenada being small enough to fit the same economic niche in that imaginary nation.)

Combining SVG, Grenada, and Trinidad makes perfect sense because Trinidad could benefit from the Development of Tourism present in those countries. Trinidad's Tourism role should be in high end tourism that most people can't afford IMO. Combining Bim, Guyana, and T&T makes sense because of the amount of sea space dominated by T&T is huge and it really only severs Guyana from Barbados; if you have a country with that huge blue playground it would attract quite a bit of investment (including but not limed to oil exploration. Guyana and T&T are also extremely resource rich, but Barbados is the most educated country in the Eastern Caribbean and Guyana needs to get its act together BAD; BIM's model is perfect to help with that. T&T too but to a lesser extent. Everybody needs T&T's cash, even Barbados to my surprise. And together, we could finally take Essequibo from de duty Venezuelans dem:)

And to quench your racism, Indians would be a minority in this new Nation. So they can go back to having their interests poorly represented save for their relatively large amount of land & money.


Clearly nowhere will be as amazing as up in America's ass like the Bahamas but i feel we could try a lil ting if we wanted.


Tan Gram

 

robblaten

New member
If i could like this ten million times i will. If tourism was the panacea for a great economy then Jamaica would have been a giant of an economy as they have been consistently in the top 3 tourist spots in the region for decades.

why not have all the islands coming together to start working on improving sectors?
You say tourism should have a 'giant' economy if tourism were a panacea? Firstly nobody said it is everyone's panacea, rather it is the panacea for those (like Jamaica) that enjoy such an obvious comparative advantage in it. Sadly, Jamaica has half-heartedly pursued tourism, and has placed little emphasis on those things (like visitor safety and infrastructure) that enhance that advatages.

Consider this. Dominican Republic has three times Jamaica's population and was historically a far poorer country. In just two decades they have come from behind and passed Jamaica in per capita income terms. All this they did by "depending" (a stupid way of looking at it) on tourism. It's like someone turns up on your doorstep with a million dollar lottery ticket and you say 'oh no Sir, I'm wary of "depending" on you. I better go get a job sweeping at McDonalds. Check the folks next door".

Jamaica could easily have been a high income country by now had they ignored the idiocies of academics and focused on grasping and developing their comparative advantage. Like the Bahamas, they would by now have evolved FAR beyond the 'playground of rich people on the beach' model of tourism that your friend, the earlier poster, still has lurking in his head.
 
Look down? So what is it when you keep trying to drag down the Bahamas and its development model?
nobody not bashing alyuh economic model, but alyuh doh realize it comes at a price, to the point that Bahamian culture is almost non existent?

Bahamian culture is not recognizable in the caribbean
 

robblaten

New member
nobody not bashing alyuh economic model, but alyuh doh realize it comes at a price, to the point that Bahamian culture is almost non existent?

Bahamian culture is not recognizable in the caribbean
My friend if Bahamian culture is not recognizable in the Caribbean, then that is a sad reflection on the lack of curiosity of some Caribbean people, because in terms of food, music, history etc, the Bahamas has among the most unique and interesting variety in the region.

So much so that musicians like Joseph Spence, when 'discovered' by the Smithsonian, so excited researches there that they dedicated a whole section of their museum. What makes it so unique is that it is neither Caribbean nor Black American, but has strong strains of both.

Bahamian music (Goombay) so strongly influenced modern American music like funk and jazz that many jazz musicians covered old Bahamian songs. Look up Blind Blake Higgs, whose 'Jones oh Jones' was covered by various mainstream groups like the Kingston Trio in the USA. Or what about 'the John B. Sail', covered by the Beach Boys. Could such a unique sound come from anywhere but the Bahamas?

As for food, try finding cracked conch with crab and grits anywhere outside the Bahamas. Or maybe that sounds American to you. haha
 
My friend if Bahamian culture is not recognizable in the Caribbean, then that is a sad reflection on the lack of curiosity of some Caribbean people, because in terms of food, music, history etc, the Bahamas has among the most unique and interesting variety in the region.

So much so that musicians like Joseph Spence, when 'discovered' by the Smithsonian, so excited researches there that they dedicated a whole section of their museum. What makes it so unique is that it is neither Caribbean nor Black American, but has strong strains of both.

Bahamian music (Goombay) so strongly influenced modern American music like funk and jazz that many jazz musicians covered old Bahamian songs. Look up Blind Blake Higgs, whose 'Jones oh Jones' was covered by various mainstream groups like the Kingston Trio in the USA. Or what about 'the John B. Sail', covered by the Beach Boys. Could such a unique sound come from anywhere but the Bahamas?

As for food, try finding cracked conch with crab and grits anywhere outside the Bahamas. Or maybe that sounds American to you. haha
white washed! alyuh not Caribbean, yall dont love us, bahamians aint got love 4 the real West Indians.

alyuh have reggae/calypso/dancehall/soca artists? how we never hear about em
 

robblaten

New member
white washed! alyuh not Caribbean, yall dont love us, bahamians aint got love 4 the real West Indians.

alyuh have reggae/calypso/dancehall/soca artists? how we never hear about em
But reggae, calypso, dancehall and soca are not our music.

Our music is goombay, junkanoo, rake and scrape. How many goombay artists you have in Trini?
 

TTCLIFEMEMBER

everyday working man
The shallowness of your understanding of economics is only matched by the shallowness of your understanding of tourism.

You ask how I can compare a canadian city of 300,000 to my country. THAT IS THE ONLY RATIONAL COMPARISON TO MAKE. It is as if you fixate around the word 'country' and so you feel a tiny place that is essentially a city state surronding by outliers should be essentially a MICROCOSM of a larger, more complex political unit, like Canada.

If is stupid beyond words to compare the Bahamas to Canada. A far better comparison is the Bahamas with Orlando. When you are talking economics, you do not compare country to country, you compare ECONOMY TO ECONOMY. The Bahamas (like Singapore) cannot be compared to Canada, and yes, the Bahamas even less so, because it is 15 times smaller than Singapore. If you do not understand that an economy of that size and model cannot support manufacturing, then you are truly lost and deluded. It is the attempts to deny their comparative advantage and make themselves microcosms of larger national economies that explains the utter failure of your countries and their 'brilliant' statesmen, from Manley to Barrow to Williams.

The Bahamas following its area of comparative advantage (internationally traded services) has allowed it not only to far outpace the rest economically, but also allowed its economy to naturally and productively diversify, rather than the forced/subsidised 'diversification' that people like you have in mind when you drool over singapore's 'mixed' economy.

Now let's look at what 'mixed' sectors now exist in the Bahamas: a massive international financial services industry (which is not an offshore tax haven), the 4th largest international shipping registry, the largest container port on the eastern Seaboard of the USA, the largest aviation and (locally owned) private airlines sector in the region by far). All these and more result from focusing on being a small and globally integrated services sector economy. It has worked since the 1950s and yes, I am pretty sure it always will.

Now to tourism. It is clear from your comments that you envision the tourism industry in passive terms. As if you just sit there smiling and wait until rich foreigners come amuse themselves in your 'playground'. That may describe parts of the west indies but it definitely does not describe the Bahamas, whose tourism industry is more diversified that the whole economies of the rest of the region.

Tourism (as we have in the Bahamas, Las Vegas or Macau) is an innovative international business that looks increasingly to emerging markets, rather than just rich people looking to play on a beach. Most of our business comes from conventions, sports tourism, gaming, group travel etc.

As an example, in october and november (the slowest part of the year), Atlantis, our largest resort property, countered the downturn by contracting with the college Basketball association in the USA and hosting the 'battle for atlantis', championship held in the resorts excellent facilities, beginning 3 years ago. The first year they attracted 7000 room nights to the destination. By the third year it had grown to 70,000.

Similarly, the Ministry of Tourism has restarted nassau speed week car racing event from the 1960s, which accounts for thousands of nights. On a regular basis, the country hosts massive conventions of all kinds, not to mention the recession-proof gaming side of the business.

It is not passive like the primitive image you have in your head. In involves government ensuring facilities and infrastructure on a scale and of a quality that mark out the destination as an international business destination.

Y'all in the west indies are always 50 years too late. In the 60's you laughed at us for tourism and financial services. By the 90's most of you were clumsily trying to copy us.

But the problem all along has been the primitive and totally erroneous view you have of tourism. You probably think it only produces waiter jobs. In fact the reason our middle class is so big is because it produces such a huge number of well paid jobs, from marine biologists to lawyers (like me) to accountants, to architects to managers and directors of the huge multinationals that exist here because of it.

But don't believe me if you like. Keep doing what your doing, integrate in CSME, keep growing bananas and digging oil and keep migrating to cold-ass New York and Canada when it keeps failing you.
It's funny listening to you talk about other Caribbean islands because it shows that competitive nature that I'm talking about. The "we do this and you guys don't" mentality that I've heard at various times whenever I listen to competitive Caribbean people talk about each other's islands, regardless of where those people live.

I'm willing to bet you have no idea how much is invested by these smaller islands in promoting these islands as tourist destinations. You just assume that they sit there and wait for the tourists to come to them because that is how your mentality works. Like I said, it is not new. Other Caribbean people think like this too. Of course, you are not going to think about the fact that the Bahamas is the closest Caribbean nation to the U.S. and for that reason, can easily attract American tourists. You are not going to think about the fact that historically, the Bahamas is more connected to the U.S. than most islands. You are not going to think about the fact that the Bahamas has tons of little secluded islands that rich people rent (or buy) and gives the Bahamas an advantage over other islands as well. Instead, you are going to believe that your people just work harder at promoting tourism than everyone else. Sorry but I'm not believing that.

Also, I'm not impressed by your middle class. Every single tourist island I know of has a middle class of people in those same professions you just named. Plus, one thing I do know about the Bahamas is that it has a high murder rate and high crime rate, two things that shouldn't exist when you live in a society where most of the people are living average.

At the end of the day, Bahamas is dependent on tourism, way more than Canada, way more than Singapore. Again, given your views on the other islands (as well as your obvious ultra capitalist views), I do not expect you to see the point in uniting with the competition. Most Caribbean people that I meet, especially those with money, think like you. So, if the well to do of the Caribbean cannot value unity, I don't expect the rest of the population to. I have the benefit of living in a nation that is a federation of provinces. Each province, if they really wanted to, could separate from each other and be their own country yet they choose not to. I've grown up learning the value of a federation and seeing how co-operation between the provinces help to make Canada the successful nation that it is.
 

robblaten

New member
It's funny listening to you talk about other Caribbean islands because it shows that competitive nature that I'm talking about. The "we do this and you guys don't" mentality that I've heard at various times whenever I listen to competitive Caribbean people talk about each other's islands, regardless of where those people live.

I'm willing to bet you have no idea how much is invested by these smaller islands in promoting these islands as tourist destinations. You just assume that they sit there and wait for the tourists to come to them because that is how your mentality works. Like I said, it is not new. Other Caribbean people think like this too. Of course, you are not going to think about the fact that the Bahamas is the closest Caribbean nation to the U.S. and for that reason, can easily attract American tourists. You are not going to think about the fact that historically, the Bahamas is more connected to the U.S. than most islands. You are not going to think about the fact that the Bahamas has tons of little secluded islands that rich people rent (or buy) and gives the Bahamas an advantage over other islands as well. Instead, you are going to believe that your people just work harder at promoting tourism than everyone else. Sorry but I'm not believing that.

Also, I'm not impressed by your middle class. Every single tourist island I know of has a middle class of people in those same professions you just named. Plus, one thing I do know about the Bahamas is that it has a high murder rate and high crime rate, two things that shouldn't exist when you live in a society where most of the people are living average.

At the end of the day, Bahamas is dependent on tourism, way more than Canada, way more than Singapore. Again, given your views on the other islands (as well as your obvious ultra capitalist views), I do not expect you to see the point in uniting with the competition. Most Caribbean people that I meet, especially those with money, think like you. So, if the well to do of the Caribbean cannot value unity, I don't expect the rest of the population to. I have the benefit of living in a nation that is a federation of provinces. Each province, if they really wanted to, could separate from each other and be their own country yet they choose not to. I've grown up learning the value of a federation and seeing how co-operation between the provinces help to make Canada the successful nation that it is.
Look, there is no point in continuing to convince one another, since you clearly have predispositions that are unmovable.

But your view that the Bahamas can be compared to Singapore or even Canada in terms of "dependency" on the industry in which it succeeds (rather than comparing it, obviously, to Macau or Orlando) sums up your obsession with viewing all small national economies in terms of microcosms of bigger ones, which is deluded.

Whatever you may have looked up about the Bahamas' recent surge in its murder rate, your view that it has a similar middle class to other "tourist islands" is simply way off base. In fact, it has a lower poverty rate (9%) than the U.S., Britain or Canada and the vast majority of its people live in such a manner that it alone of the entire region (except colonies) does not have a population needing to migrate (which they can easily do) to other developed societies.

You will find that the murder rate has little to do with economics and much to do with wannabe gangster idiots murdering each other, as they find their inspiration on American television. Another wonderful aspect of life close to the USA.

Anyway, you will find my attitude to be prevalent not only among the 'well to do' in the Bahamas, but the entire population.
 

TTCLIFEMEMBER

everyday working man
Look, there is no point in continuing to convince one another, since you clearly have predispositions that are unmovable.

But your view that the Bahamas can be compared to Singapore or even Canada in terms of "dependency" on the industry in which it succeeds (rather than comparing it, obviously, to Macau or Orlando) sums up your obsession with viewing all small national economies in terms of microcosms of bigger ones, which is deluded.

Whatever you may have looked up about the Bahamas' recent surge in its murder rate, your view that it has a similar middle class to other "tourist islands" is simply way off base. In fact, it has a lower poverty rate (9%) than the U.S., Britain or Canada and the vast majority of its people live in such a manner that it alone of the entire region (except colonies) does not have a population needing to migrate (which they can easily do) to other developed societies.

You will find that the murder rate has little to do with economics and much to do with wannabe gangster idiots murdering each other, as they find their inspiration on American television. Another wonderful aspect of life close to the USA.

Anyway, you will find my attitude to be prevalent not only among the 'well to do' in the Bahamas, but the entire population.

Actually, my point is that you cannot compare Singapore with the Bahamas. Remember, you brought up Singapore as a small nation with sense and I'm saying that Singapore has things going for it that the Bahamas does not.

Your attitude that the murder rate has more to do with wannabe gangsters influenced by the American media instead of economics is an attitude I've also heard from people coming from other tourist dependent islands as well. My question is, how come these wannabes in the Bahamas are so impressionable by what they see in the U.S. when they see that they can make a decent life for themselves in the Bahamas ? Most people growing up want to be tough now and then but when someone becomes a murderer, that's not just "being tough" anymore. That person is a real criminal and it's time to look at the reasons why there are real criminals in the Bahamas. I'm willing to bet that economics is a factor.

I expect your attitude to be the main attitude in the Bahamas because like I said, if the well to do don't value unity, neither will the mainstream population. This isn't about education because it is obvious to me that you have education. I believe you have a certain mentality and it comes the experiences in your country as well as the general attitude of your country. The Bahamas has never seen a Caribbean federation work and you guys are not going to see any reason to push for one. So, based on that, my hope is that the Bahamas remains one of the main tourist destinations for Americans but if ever that's not the case, I don't know if I will sympathize because your country is choosing to be over dependent on tourism instead of working with the rest of the Caribbean region to have a greater pool of resources and support each other in times of need.
 

robblaten

New member
Actually, my point is that you cannot compare Singapore with the Bahamas. Remember, you brought up Singapore as a small nation with sense and I'm saying that Singapore has things going for it that the Bahamas does not.

Your attitude that the murder rate has more to do with wannabe gangsters influenced by the American media instead of economics is an attitude I've also heard from people coming from other tourist dependent islands as well. My question is, how come these wannabes in the Bahamas are so impressionable by what they see in the U.S. when they see that they can make a decent life for themselves in the Bahamas ? Most people growing up want to be tough now and then but when someone becomes a murderer, that's not just "being tough" anymore. That person is a real criminal and it's time to look at the reasons why there are real criminals in the Bahamas. I'm willing to bet that economics is a factor.

I expect your attitude to be the main attitude in the Bahamas because like I said, if the well to do don't value unity, neither will the mainstream population. This isn't about education because it is obvious to me that you have education. I believe you have a certain mentality and it comes the experiences in your country as well as the general attitude of your country. The Bahamas has never seen a Caribbean federation work and you guys are not going to see any reason to push for one. So, based on that, my hope is that the Bahamas remains one of the main tourist destinations for Americans but if ever that's not the case, I don't know if I will sympathize because your country is choosing to be over dependent on tourism instead of working with the rest of the Caribbean region to have a greater pool of resources and support each other in times of need.
All that can be said is that your utterly erroneous views of the Bahamas, the nature of its economy and specifically, its tourism industry, reflect the fact that you have no deep acquaintance for the place. Also, your repeated references to 'the islands' and 'you guys in the Caribbean' demonstrate that, whatever your heritage, your opinions are deeply coloured by an outside and even stereotyped view of the region, which you lump together like a similarly unexposed Bahamian may lump together Canada and Greenland.

I have been to Singapore and have many friends from University there. There is simply no way I would choose their economic or development model over ours. Ours is just the right balance for a place of our size.

Unlike many other countries that you lump us together with under the 'you Caribbean guys' label, the Bahamas is essentially a successful city-state (nassau) surrounded by outliers that have traditionally been satellites of the nucleus. 90% of its population is therefore urban. Naturally, then, whatever problems we have are typical urban problems, like crime. Some problems also are cultural and stem from issues common to all new world black societies (like the tendency to assault (beat) one's children and call it discipline), although the Bahamas is ahead of the curve of other black societies on most such issues.

My overriding point is that our best future is not jumping into a union with a bunch of mostly larger regional states just to form a larger unit with no obvious tangible benefits. Rather, it is to keep doing what we re doing, which has kept us on an impressive trajectory since independence (open, globalised economy, dollar parity with the U.S., pursuit of natural comparative advantages in international services and being SMALL).

If you differ, that is fine. But my repeated point about you (of other regional descent) speaking from abroad to me in the Bahamas is not intended to be insulting to you. It is just an attempt to wake you up to the results of the Bahamian economic model, which to me is unsurpassed as a model for a country of our kind and size.
 

AROUCA-TRINI

New member
Some of the Trinis here are disappointing me with their counter arguments. I don't mind someone being nationalistic and self-confident but it must be substantiated with facts which I find is what Roblatten is doing. If their tourism model is working for them (it clearly does) then good for them. Trinidad has conquered the other islands with our music and companies (Bahamas has imported unknowingly our limbo dancing. Yes, limbo originated in Trinidad go look it up) so we wouldn't die without them. They may be condescending but they have a standard of living to back it up. I can't stand islanders sounding like they are superior but when we go to their countries we don't find it to be much. The trinis that I know who have been to the Bahamas testify that their living standard is high so hence I understand their mentality. They don't realy need the other islands.
 

robblaten

New member
Some of the Trinis here are disappointing me with their counter arguments. I don't mind someone being nationalistic and self-confident but it must be substantiated with facts which I find is what Roblatten is doing. If their tourism model is working for them (it clearly does) then good for them. Trinidad has conquered the other islands with our music and companies (Bahamas has imported unknowingly our limbo dancing. Yes, limbo originated in Trinidad go look it up) so we wouldn't die without them. They may be condescending but they have a standard of living to back it up. I can't stand islanders sounding like they are superior but when we go to their countries we don't find it to be much. The trinis that I know who have been to the Bahamas testify that their living standard is high so hence I understand their mentality. They don't realy need the other islands.
Of course I know limbo is Trinidadian. It has now been exported even beyond the Caribbean region.
 

Colors

STEADY WUK
The way the economy is looking in many islands in the Caribbean today.......sooner or later the Chinese will take over......I just hope when they do the islands can keep their culture and identity in good standing
 
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