Christians think yoga is demonic??

Oneshot

where de crix
Uh huh...sure. Since when do people of judeo-christian tradition say blood transfusion is a no-no? Again, stop assuming.
you act as if you have never come across people who believe blood transfusions are not an extension of the consumption of blood.
 

dollbabi

Earth Angel
you act as if you have never come across people who believe blood transfusions are not an extension of the consumption of blood.
I never said anything sort. I'm talkin about you acting as though judeo-christians in general do not have blood transfusions. You directed you questioning to me as though you just knew that is what i believed. Stop that mess.
 
T

Toppa_Toppa

Guest
en masse? patients need a strong blood count to start. How exactly would that help a patient who has lost a 1 litre of blood?

My question was a question to you, and other people in your camp.

Because if life is precious, how can one refuse a child the chance at preserving her life, is not the same as a condemning that child to death?
Yes, a strong blood count helps which is why before 'bloodless surgery' patients undergo treatment to increase said blood count. Secondly, in the instance of blood-loss doctors have found that (a) the human body can sustain much lower levels than previously thought and (b) the body actually does not go into shock due to the loss of blood, per se, but the loss of volume. This is why when paramedics arrive at a trauma site they treat the patients with volumisers and expanders so the body does not go into shock.

Yes, life is indeed precious which is why, if you watched the video, you would have seen that JWs approached the hospital to come up with a method of treatment that did not involve blood. And lo and behold, everyone now has a much safer option with a lower mortality and morbidity rate, quicker recovery time - and look - it's even cheaper.

And to answer your final question. You are assuming that taking a blood transfusion would have guaranteed that the person would have survived whatever trauma they had suffered. A blood transfusion has never been a guarantor of life and the risks far outweigh the benefits and that is not just my opinion.

Were you aware that blood transfusion only rose to prominence in the 20th Century? And since then it has resulted in mass epidemics (how many haemophiliacs got HIV in the 80s was it? I believe it was in the thousands). Did you also know that the immune system is designed to reject all foreign issue - which would include blood that was not your own?

"Approximately 1 in 100 transfusions are accompanied by fever, chills, or urticaria [hives]. . . . Approximately 1 in 6,000 red cell transfusions results in a hemolytic transfusion reaction. This is a severe immunologic reaction that may occur acutely or in a delayed fashion some days after the transfusion; it may result in acute [kidney] failure, shock, intravascular coagulation, and even death."—National Institutes of Health (NIH) conference, 1988.

The journal Cancer (February 15, 1987) gave the results of a study done in the Netherlands: "In the patients with colon cancer, a significant adverse effect of transfusion on long-term survival was seen. In this group there was a cumulative 5-year overall survival of 48% for the transfused and 74% for the nontransfused patients." Physicians at the University of Southern California followed up on a hundred patients who underwent cancer surgery. "The recurrence rate for all cancers of the larynx was 14% for those who did not receive blood and 65% for those who did. For cancer of the oral cavity, pharynx, and nose or sinus, the recurrence rate was 31% without transfusions and 71% with transfusions."—Annals of Otology, Rhinology & Laryngology, March 1989.

Dr. P. I. Tartter did a study of colorectal surgery. Of patients given transfusions, 25 percent developed infections, compared with 4 percent of those who received no transfusions. He reports: "Blood transfusions were associated with infectious complications when given pre-, intra-, or postoperatively . . . The risk of postoperative infection increased progressively with the number of units of blood given." (The British Journal of Surgery, August 1988) Those attending a 1989 meeting of the American Association of Blood Banks learned this: Whereas 23 percent of those who received donor blood during hip-replacement surgery developed infections, those given no blood had no infections at all.

Furthermore, if you believe that everlasting life is possible through God, would you sacrifice your faith and disobey a command on something that is much less of a guarantee?

Acts 15:20, 28-29 - but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood... For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!

Good health indeed. :drinks:



Anyway, the evidence is abundant and it was simply laziness by doctors only wanting to use blood transfusions as a catch-all for everything. However, because of Christians refusing blood due to their convictions and faith, this resulted in an expansion in medical ingenuity that everyone can benefit from. Good health to you, Oneshot.
 

ladyrastafari

Notchilous
I assuming you are Catholic here.. how can not believe in heaven/hell, when the Church itself is based on the defeat of death by Christ.

Even if you think in a quantum state, where your soul is a energy signature, that merely exists in a different plane of existence, isn't that the after life?
you are assuming that i believe every single doctrine the church has, no? note: i use birth control, nuff said.

how can your energy dissipating back into the form that it was before you took life.. be considered the afterlife, if your soul never dies.. but merely goes from being housed to being free... woudnt that be a Shrodinger's cat type of situation... how can the "after life" exist and refer to somethign that does not die?

isnt it like the sun.. it's always sunny if you consider sunny to be the sun's rays shining and light beaming here on us..... we however experience night and day due to the earth's position and rotation . .. however, that doesn't mean that at night time there is no sun.. it's there.. we just can't see it.


and also, i dont believe in any kinda fairy tale bullshit that after you die.. you go on to some utopic ideal somewhere.. no... that is a coping mechanism that people who can't deal with their reality here on earth, use to convince themselves that the suffereing they doing on earth will pay off when they get to the afterlife.. i believe when you dead, your consciousness as you know yourself, may cease to exist and you are now back to an unhoused energy...
 
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Minxy

New member
okay i'm only going to say this once.. when you quoting, make sure and quote all parts so that you can have some context... the above quote from me about after my death, energy will return to the form it was, before my birth.. and then in another post i distinctly recall saying that "ENERGY IS NEITHER CREATED NOR DESTROYED BUT MERELY CHANGED FROM ONE FORM TO ANOTHER"... so.. now.. with that context.. that sounds like reincarnation, no?

and for the record i never refer to myself as a "Christian"... while Catholicism is technically a branch of Christianity, I leave the term Christian to non-Catholic Christians.. that's just my personal thing, by no means universal... and yes, I dont believe in the afterlife, heaven/hell and a few other things..
God man, u so ################ing rude yo...did i ask something wrong?? U clearly stated that ur energy dissipates and in another sentence u said that u may reincarnate...:no2:..fuk it, i dont really care anyway :rolleyes:

See why I tell you doh assume! Juss b/c I am Christian and share/discuss my religious stances openly, doesnt mean I hold the views that you associate with the religion. Same goes for anyone else.

That's why I engage you in your rants about Christian doctrine and quick to call people nuts based on what you think we believe. Yet you didnt know it have those of us who dont believe such things. We dont believe all non-christians are "going to hell." In fact, we dont believe in any place burning right now with people inner souls in it or that people's souls go to heaven or hell when they die. That's why it's best to just ask.

What unites Christians is belief in Jesus Christ and from there it varies.
Well, like Oneshot said, ah mean, that is what ur religion teaches, who would kno that u don't believe that? Thats the thing with christians, they pick and choose what they want to believe in, thats just weird to me...but i hear u :drag:
 

dollbabi

Earth Angel
Well, like Oneshot said, ah mean, that is what ur religion teaches, who would kno that u don't believe that? Thats the thing with christians, they pick and choose what they want to believe in, thats just weird to me...but i hear u :drag:
SMH. No one is picking and choosing. Now you are assuming that people just choose not to believe in the popular hell doctrine. Not true again. The Scripture itself teaches that people arent burning in hell endlessly and that not only Christians are going to be in heaven.

It's weird to you because you are only familiar with mainstream Christianity and take what they tell you as what it must be.
 
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T

Toppa_Toppa

Guest
ehhh no.

They're trying to move towards bloodless surgery for the simple fact that it eliminates many of the complications that are tied into relying on blood banks supplied by donors and you don't have to worry about things like infections.

???Did I say anything different?

But at the same time, the main drawback for bloodless surgery right now is that you have to have a strong blood count to be a good candidate for it, meaning that in general you have to be a healthy person in order to forgo transfusions. This important technicality automatically eliminates a whole host of people who need surgeries but have conditions which result in low blood count or anaemia.
It does not eliminate a whole host of people, those people simply undergo treatment before the surgery (including major surgery and surgery in children) to increase their blood count.
 

Minxy

New member
SMH. No one is picking and choosing. Oh so now you are assuming that people just choose not to believe in the popular hell doctrine? Wrong again. The Scripture itself teaches that people are burning in hell endlessly and that not only Christians are going to be in heaven.

It's weird to you because you are only familiar with mainstream Christianity and take what they tell you as what it must be.
lol...so im wrong to believe that christian teaching is that u are going to hell if u are a sinner?...alrighty then :eek:k:
 

dollbabi

Earth Angel
Yes, a strong blood count helps which is why before 'bloodless surgery' patients undergo treatment to increase said blood count. Secondly, in the instance of blood-loss doctors have found that (a) the human body can sustain much lower levels than previously thought and (b) the body actually does not go into shock due to the loss of blood, per se, but the loss of volume. This is why when paramedics arrive at a trauma site they treat the patients with volumisers and expanders so the body does not go into shock.

Yes, life is indeed precious which is why, if you watched the video, you would have seen that JWs approached the hospital to come up with a method of treatment that did not involve blood. And lo and behold, everyone now has a much safer option with a lower mortality and morbidity rate, quicker recovery time - and look - it's even cheaper.

And to answer your final question. You are assuming that taking a blood transfusion would have guaranteed that the person would have survived whatever trauma they had suffered. A blood transfusion has never been a guarantor of life and the risks far outweigh the benefits and that is not just my opinion.

Were you aware that blood transfusion only rose to prominence in the 20th Century? And since then it has resulted in mass epidemics (how many haemophiliacs got HIV in the 80s was it? I believe it was in the thousands). Did you also know that the immune system is designed to reject all foreign issue - which would include blood that was not your own?

"Approximately 1 in 100 transfusions are accompanied by fever, chills, or urticaria [hives]. . . . Approximately 1 in 6,000 red cell transfusions results in a hemolytic transfusion reaction. This is a severe immunologic reaction that may occur acutely or in a delayed fashion some days after the transfusion; it may result in acute [kidney] failure, shock, intravascular coagulation, and even death."—National Institutes of Health (NIH) conference, 1988.

The journal Cancer (February 15, 1987) gave the results of a study done in the Netherlands: "In the patients with colon cancer, a significant adverse effect of transfusion on long-term survival was seen. In this group there was a cumulative 5-year overall survival of 48% for the transfused and 74% for the nontransfused patients." Physicians at the University of Southern California followed up on a hundred patients who underwent cancer surgery. "The recurrence rate for all cancers of the larynx was 14% for those who did not receive blood and 65% for those who did. For cancer of the oral cavity, pharynx, and nose or sinus, the recurrence rate was 31% without transfusions and 71% with transfusions."—Annals of Otology, Rhinology & Laryngology, March 1989.

Dr. P. I. Tartter did a study of colorectal surgery. Of patients given transfusions, 25 percent developed infections, compared with 4 percent of those who received no transfusions. He reports: "Blood transfusions were associated with infectious complications when given pre-, intra-, or postoperatively . . . The risk of postoperative infection increased progressively with the number of units of blood given." (The British Journal of Surgery, August 1988) Those attending a 1989 meeting of the American Association of Blood Banks learned this: Whereas 23 percent of those who received donor blood during hip-replacement surgery developed infections, those given no blood had no infections at all.

Furthermore, if you believe that everlasting life is possible through God, would you sacrifice your faith and disobey a command on something that is much less of a guarantee?

Acts 15:20, 28-29 - but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood... For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!

Good health indeed. :drinks:



Anyway, the evidence is abundant and it was simply laziness by doctors only wanting to use blood transfusions as a catch-all for everything. However, because of Christians refusing blood due to their convictions and faith, this resulted in an expansion in medical ingenuity that everyone can benefit from. Good health to you, Oneshot.
Interesting read. Gonna look at it again later. :good:
 

ladyrastafari

Notchilous
God man, u so ################ing rude yo...did i ask something wrong?? U clearly stated that ur energy dissipates and in another sentence u said that u may reincarnate...:no2:..fuk it, i dont really care anyway :rolleyes:



Well, like Oneshot said, ah mean, that is what ur religion teaches, who would kno that u don't believe that? Thats the thing with christians, they pick and choose what they want to believe in, thats just weird to me...but i hear u :drag:
who's being rude.. you asked a question i gave you an answer.. i am sure in the part where i said energy dissipates.. i did say that it dissipates BACK TO THE FORM IT WAS BEFORE YOU WERE BORN.. so... again, am i being rude, or yu didnt read? :protest:

but i dont get you though... you act like every other religion has people who follow everythign in the faith they were baptised in.. are you hindu? if you are, or were baptised as a hindu, then you're lapsed, no? then why is it so hard t believe people dont believe everything in their faith's doctrines.. faith is a struggle for most.. to keep as close as they can... its not a pill that you swallow and done..

and as for that last line, if that were true, you wouldnt have asked..
SMH. No one is picking and choosing. Now you are assuming that people just choose not to believe in the popular hell doctrine. Not true again. The Scripture itself teaches that people arent burning in hell endlessly and that not only Christians are going to be in heaven.

It's weird to you because you are only familiar with mainstream Christianity and take what they tell you as what it must be.
 

dollbabi

Earth Angel
lol...so im wrong to believe that christian teaching is that u are going to hell if u are a sinner?...alrighty then :eek:k:
Nooooooooooooo...you're wrong to assume that every Christian believes exactly the same doctrine. Like, what you said can be answered yes and no depending on your understanding.

You were going off earlier about Christians telling you that non-Christians are all gonna burn in hell forever or something like that? Plenty do believe that but some do not. It's not that they pick and choose but that there are different beliefs within Christianity.
 

Minxy

New member
Wait...so you dont know that there are different understandings of Muslim texts or Hindu texts?
I was good yesterday and now im :confused again...well not really :confused...just :mda:...but im done, via con dios :rabbi:...y'all ga head with ur uh religion...im good :good:
 

dollbabi

Earth Angel
nooooooooooooooooo dont say that!!! :help: remember hindus, apparently ALL of them belief in throwin de wife ontop the pyre to burn after de husband dead..
:kicks OK! And every Muslim woman wear the burqa and niqab and that makes them so oppressed!

I mean seriously??????
 

dollbabi

Earth Angel
I was good yesterday and now im :confused again...well not really :confused...just :mda:...but im done, via con dios :rabbi:...y'all ga head with ur uh religion...im good :good:
You seem like you just want to think that Christians only believe what you have seen or heard from people you've met...and if not, they are picking or choosing or just weird.

Some of us have been around to much religious diversity for that kind of thought process. But such as life...
 

Minxy

New member
You seem like you just want to think that Christians only believe what you have seen or heard from people you've met...and if not, they are picking or choosing or just weird.

Some of us have been around to much religious diversity for that kind of thought process. But such as life...
well then why not call urself spiritual, if u believe in lots of different things? Does the bible teach u that we are energy and reincarnate? Really? Why label or appear to subscribe to ONE belief if ur not really a believer? And why would i WANT to think anything? Religion and spirituality is personal IMO, whatever works for u yo
 

dollbabi

Earth Angel
well then why not call urself spritual, if u believe in lots of different things? Does the bible teach u that we are energy and reincarnate? Really? Why label or appear to subscribe to ONE belief if ur not really a believer?
Wait...who said I believe in energy or reincarnation? That was LR.

Lemme behave and be patient. OK, what i believe is completely based in the Bible. It's just not what the Christian mainstream believes. If you've visited churches with friends, how often in churches you've attended do you see the Hebrew and Greek translations being referenced?

Those are the original languages of the Bible. That's one of the major reasons certain Christian groups understand "hell" to mean "the grave" overall. So it's different approaches or understandings of the same texts.

Like say, those people who feel that only Christians are goig to heaven. I could provide challenges to that from the Bible itself.

It's Bible based...just a different understanding. Kinda like you would find in some other religions.
 

Minxy

New member
ok so ur like my step daughter's mother...she believes in what they DON'T teach in CHURCH in regards to the bible?
 
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