Discuss: The Biker Gang vs. Family in SUV video

LB

Peace Love n Pretty Tings
This morning I heard one of the bikers say that after initial accident, one biker did take off his helmet and bang the window just like the footage in the end; but , when he looked good through the tint and saw that there was a family in the car, he backed off and walked away. According to that biker, is then driver decided to plow through them. He claims the driver was also talking shit and "acting aggressively. If that's the case then no, he did not have to do what he did. I guess this whole thing is really grey and it's best it comes down to law.

What's interesting to me in this thread though esp Insid's comments about me is how everyone seems to claim that self preservation does not take over most ppl's actions when threatened. This is why ppl should not approach situations letting their emotions rage. If you stomp up to someone yelling and cussing and invading their personal space they're likely to react any kind of way. You try to bang down someone's front door...you're likely to get shot :rolleyes: For the record, there are numerous guns in my house, my husband hunts.,.and I haven't shot anyone yet. :kicks

Idk, this just make it look like he gave as good as he got int he acting aggressively department. D8ck slinging never ends well so how does it keep the driver off the hook if he was escalating things just as well? How is he less culpable?
So as long as two wrongs make a right its okay?

Everyone reacts differently under stress and cant always keep a clear head. I agree. But it doesnt mean the way you react is always justified, or should I say in this case legal. I guess you can always justify your choices but it doesnt always mean you are on the right side of the law when you do.

Both sides took it too far, but what I am saying is I am just not willing to cut the driver as much slack as everyone else seems to be.
 

LIONESS onda RISE

Registered User
I would have runn them over tooo... Even without my children in the car

Dem bikers act like they own the road, they have surrounded my car in a similar way plenty times!!! I slow and let them pass, but they are nerve wracking and intimidating (intentionally so IMO).. And yes!! I used to ride myself and will still do so occasionally, so I'm not hating in the bike crews. It's fact that most if them not just out for a nice ride.. In a pack like that, it's mayhem they looking and causing
 

Alpha Unit

Insurgent
This morning I heard one of the bikers say that after initial accident, one biker did take off his helmet and bang the window just like the footage in the end; but , when he looked good through the tint and saw that there was a family in the car, he backed off and walked away. According to that biker, is then driver decided to plow through them. He claims the driver was also talking shit and "acting aggressively. If that's the case then no, he did not have to do what he did. I guess this whole thing is really grey and it's best it comes down to law.

What's interesting to me in this thread though esp Insid's comments about me is how everyone seems to claim that self preservation does not take over most ppl's actions when threatened. This is why ppl should not approach situations letting their emotions rage. If you stomp up to someone yelling and cussing and invading their personal space they're likely to react any kind of way. You try to bang down someone's front door...you're likely to get shot :rolleyes: For the record, there are numerous guns in my house, my husband hunts.,.and I haven't shot anyone yet. :kicks
Either by an illegal gun owner or someone who legally owns but is unfamiliar with the law. You only shoot when there is no other recourse. You have to first attempt to get awy if you can. So banging down the front door leaves you with the option of exiting through side, basement, or rear doors. If you shoot before doing any of that then you will likely catch ah criminal charge or few.

Idk, this just make it look like he gave as good as he got int he acting aggressively department. D8ck slinging never ends well so how does it keep the driver off the hook if he was escalating things just as well? How is he less culpable?
So as long as two wrongs make a right its okay?

Everyone reacts differently under stress and cant always keep a clear head. I agree. But it doesnt mean the way you react is always justified, or should I say in this case legal. I guess you can always justify your choices but it doesnt always mean you are on the right side of the law when you do.

Both sides took it too far, but what I am saying is I am just not willing to cut the driver as much slack as everyone else seems to be.
Funny thing is, neither the driver nor his wife will likely own up to that even if is 100% true. Admitting that he was engaging them will only make his situation worse because his actions can be deemed premeditated. (Hope lawyer boy ask about it in class later lol), here's why tho. If he is already engaging them verbally and shit talking back and forth, then a case can be made that he already decided how he would get away if it escalated. He could have easily thought to himself "talk your shit now, but come near me and I will run some of you assholes over." It would also show he was equally aggressive and there absolutely unjustified in his reaction. So far with everything that has come out neither police, bikers, nor driver family have indicated that more than 1 rider approached the vehicle.

I would have runn them over tooo... Even without my children in the car

Dem bikers act like they own the road, they have surrounded my car in a similar way plenty times!!! I slow and let them pass, but they are nerve wracking and intimidating (intentionally so IMO).. And yes!! I used to ride myself and will still do so occasionally, so I'm not hating in the bike crews. It's fact that most if them not just out for a nice ride.. In a pack like that, it's mayhem they looking and causing
Every last one of you in here who say in that situation "I would do the same" would be guilty of attempted murder, aggravated assault, assualt with a deadly weapon, and a host of other charges because you have already decided you would do it. The situation would be of little relevance because the thought to do it is already there. PREMEDITATION!

Now I understand the emotion behind why many feel like he did what he felt he had to. My problem with that though, is that even if the riders were showboating, acting like they owned the road, riding aggressive etc, when the accident occurs all they do is stop. There wasn't a mas exodus from the bikes. Nobody on there bikes were flailing away making aggressive hand gestures, nothing. They were stoppoed and looking back. If that was enough to scare that man into that response then he is a liabilty on the road. He probably needs an escort to the kitchen to get a glass of water.
 

CaribKaraoke

CaribKaraoke.com Owner
Biker gang wrong for brake checking
Biker gang wrong for surrounding car
Suv driver wrong for running people over
Biker gang wrong for smashing windows
Suv driver wrong for running people over again

All parties should be charged in different court cases. No one was 'right' in doing what they did, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't do exactly what the SUV driver did with my wife and son in the car and being surrounded by bikers trying to intimidate and brake checking me,
 

Alpha Unit

Insurgent
Biker gang wrong for brake checking
Biker gang wrong for surrounding car
Suv driver wrong for running people over
Biker gang wrong for smashing windows
Suv driver wrong for running people over again

All parties should be charged in different court cases. No one was 'right' in doing what they did, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't do exactly what the SUV driver did with my wife and son in the car and being surrounded by bikers trying to intimidate and brake checking me,
At least you willing to own up to the fact that it is wrong. I get the sense from others that they feel is justified and therefore he didn't commit any crime. I doh see it as they surronded him though, all they did was stop in place when the accident occurs. If indeed they had the merges blocked then they understandably felt they could all stop in place because nothing coming gunning down the highway. It might seem like semantics but did they actually surround him, or were they going by? The biker that chacked him did that for him to slow down so the others could pass on the left. Surround is incorrectly being applied here as he wasn't their focus. It's not as if to get around they could go over or under, they have to pass in the free lane. The recording shows them going past him with oly the one that checked him slowing down. He wasn't surrounded intentionally and noone will be able to prove otherwise in court unless the bikers themselves say it was always their intention to "surround" him.
 

Jason kiDD

Super Moderator
Good conversations all around.. I guess the only thing left is to take it to way left field and to discuss what would have happened if either the biker(s) that got run over had died. And/or if the driver had died from being assaulted afterwards.. How would the conversation differ? Should it?

Tell me your stories... © PJK####™
 

femmeayitienne

***//\\***
Wife's statement

Rosalyn Ng, wife of Alexian Lien, said her husband and their 2-year-old child were “placed in grave danger” while out celebrating their anniversary Sunday afternoon.

“Our plan last Sunday was to celebrate our wedding anniversary by having a nice family day out with our 2-year-old daughter,” Ng’s said in a statement released through the family’s lawyers.

“Unfortunately, instead, we were placed in grave danger by a mob of reckless and violent motorcyclists.”

Her hubby, she said, “was forced under the circumstances to take the actions that he did in order to protect the lives of our entire family” and should not be blamed for running over and injuring one of the bikers.

“We know in our hearts that we could not have done anything differently,” Ng said.

“Our fear for our lives was confirmed when the incident ended with the ruthless and brutal attack on my husband, me, and, most importantly, our 2-year-old child.”
 

Alpha Unit

Insurgent
Wife's statement

Rosalyn Ng, wife of Alexian Lien, said her husband and their 2-year-old child were “placed in grave danger” while out celebrating their anniversary Sunday afternoon.

“Our plan last Sunday was to celebrate our wedding anniversary by having a nice family day out with our 2-year-old daughter,” Ng’s said in a statement released through the family’s lawyers.

“Unfortunately, instead, we were placed in grave danger by a mob of reckless and violent motorcyclists.”

Her hubby, she said, “was forced under the circumstances to take the actions that he did in order to protect the lives of our entire family” and should not be blamed for running over and injuring one of the bikers.

“We know in our hearts that we could not have done anything differently,” Ng said.

“Our fear for our lives was confirmed when the incident ended with the ruthless and brutal attack on my husband, me, and, most importantly, our 2-year-old child.”
Bullshit!

She eh shed no light on anything and trying to cleverly associate how it ended with how it began. Conveniently exhonerating her husband from any wrongdoing on the basis of them being violent. Where however, was this supposed violence when the initial accident occured?
 

LB

Peace Love n Pretty Tings
Funny thing is, neither the driver nor his wife will likely own up to that even if is 100% true. Admitting that he was engaging them will only make his situation worse because his actions can be deemed premeditated. (Hope lawyer boy ask about it in class later lol), here's why tho. If he is already engaging them verbally and shit talking back and forth, then a case can be made that he already decided how he would get away if it escalated. He could have easily thought to himself "talk your shit now, but come near me and I will run some of you assholes over." It would also show he was equally aggressive and there absolutely unjustified in his reaction. So far with everything that has come out neither police, bikers, nor driver family have indicated that more than 1 rider approached the vehicle.



Every last one of you in here who say in that situation "I would do the same" would be guilty of attempted murder, aggravated assault, assualt with a deadly weapon, and a host of other charges because you have already decided you would do it. The situation would be of little relevance because the thought to do it is already there. PREMEDITATION!

Now I understand the emotion behind why many feel like he did what he felt he had to. My problem with that though, is that even if the riders were showboating, acting like they owned the road, riding aggressive etc, when the accident occurs all they do is stop. There wasn't a mas exodus from the bikes. Nobody on there bikes were flailing away making aggressive hand gestures, nothing. They were stoppoed and looking back. If that was enough to scare that man into that response then he is a liabilty on the road. He probably needs an escort to the kitchen to get a glass of water.
:kicks


The first part is what no one wants to take on because they want to make it all about the bikers. How do we know that the guy who hit his helmet against the car didnt do so after the driver started chatting sh8t to him? Does that mean the driver rolled down his window soon after to say sh8t them too? And because he is getting all the sympathy and playing the family in the car card in the press, he will NEVER admit to what he may have done to provoke their reaction.

And sorry, I dont care what anyone says, if you are in some 5,000 pound SUV you have the damn upperhand as he rightly proved by plowing through and crippling one of them.
If the window was smashed then maybe someone call pull you out of the vehicle and hurt you or your family. But you safely in your big SUV up against an exposed guy on a bike? Right or wrong you will always win and as an SUV driver even I know that. I am a woman, I'd be mad uncomfortable with the situation but as long as I am in my car and no one's broken in 1) even with all my my road rage issues, I wouldnt engage none of them is a verbal sparring match once we all stopped 2) Knowing I can kill any of them with my vehicle in an instant wouldnt make me feel all that "threatened". As long as I am behind the wheel of the SUV, I run things.

Ppl want to say bikers can be assholes, well, ppl in cars can be crazy assholes too.

The biker who posted the video online obviously did it because he didnt see anything that would work against his fellow bikers at the time. He probably posted it to show their side of the situation. But since so many have a dislike for bikers, ppl are adding to the narrative about what really happened and making it out like the driver is some kind of hero. And we all love a good hero story.
 

Alpha Unit

Insurgent
Good conversations all around.. I guess the only thing left is to take it to way left field and to discuss what would have happened if either the biker(s) that got run over had died. And/or if the driver had died from being assaulted afterwards.. How would the conversation differ? Should it?

Tell me your stories... © PJK####™
My argument would still be the same. The SUV driver would then IMO need to be charged with vehicular manslaghter among other things. My only addition would be that the bikers responsible for killing him would also deserve to be charged with manslaughter as well.

All parties overreacted but despite being a family man myself, it's hard not to say the SUV driver made a mess of this whole thing. Surely the bikers could have held him and called the police once they finally caught up to him, so that was an option. But with passions boiling I could easily understand why it ended the way it did. If a driver try to run me over with his vehicle (speaking of the second biker he clipped) and I have to chase and catch him, not even Jesus cah save he from ah cuttarse! Anything at my disposal will be used to smash his window so I can extracate dat focka from he vehicle and blaze him fuh almost taking my life. Daz real talk not no politically correct bs.
 
J

Juan Dan

Guest
I am honestly confused as to why people like insidious, lb, and big boss are taking such a hard stance against the family....
seriously, maybe I dont get something....
yet obviously the bikers are assholes who HAVE DONE THE VERY SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND WERE DOING IT ALL DAY...
200 or so complaints if I am correct...

they wanted the highway to themselves and dude wouldnt bow down to them...

IT IS THAT SIMPLE...
well maybee rocket science and I just dont get it...
subscribed none the less
 

LB

Peace Love n Pretty Tings
Hard stance? dont see where I've done that.. Ppl should be free to question the driver's behaviour and motivation too.

Others are implying the driver isn't in the wrong at all. I say their is nuff blame to go around because we obviously cant see what truly went down. We cant see it clearly at all and its is word against theirs. Like the driver isnt capable of lying to pervert the truth. Unno act like ppl cant take a little bit of the truth and then manipulate the appearance of things to their benefit....especially since most of you have said "this is the way all bikers flex therefore they deserve their fate"

You all are good with his reaction and think the bikers are 100% wrong, then good on you. Not really much more to discuss from there.
 
J

Juan Dan

Guest
Hard stance? dont see where I've done that.. Ppl should be free to question the driver's behaviour and motivation too.

Others are implying the driver isn't in the wrong at all. I say their is nuff blame to go around because we obviously cant see what truly went down. We cant see it clearly at all and its is word against theirs. Like the driver isnt capable of lying to pervert the truth. Unno act like ppl cant take a little bit of the truth and then manipulate the appearance of things to their benefit....especially since most of you have said "this is the way all bikers flex therefore they deserve their fate"

You all are good with his reaction and think the bikers are 100% wrong, then good on you. Not really much more to discuss from there.
I think the main problem with the world is folks interests and experiences...
we see it in politics and religion and race etc etc etc....

those who are bikers have an opinion, those who are drivers have an opinion...

those who have experienced negatives or positives of either have an opinion...

do I have to tell you of folks I have known who have died from speeding cars or off bikes?
I doubt it

in any case there are some serious emotions concerning this matters it appears
and AS USUAL
only time will have folks simmer and think without bias or emotion

so as they say we await to know more

I am not for or against anybody
 

LB

Peace Love n Pretty Tings
I think the main problem with the world is folks interests and experiences...
we see it in politics and religion and race etc etc etc....

those who are bikers have an opinion, those who are drivers have an opinion...

those who have experienced negatives or positives of either have an opinion...

do I have to tell you of folks I have known who have died from speeding cars or off bikes?
I doubt it

in any case there are some serious emotions concerning this matters it appears
and AS USUAL
only time will have folks simmer and think without bias or emotion

so as they say we await to know more

I am not for or against anybody
I just raised the possibility that its not so clear cut as it has been made out to be. I am not running no strong emotion in any direction. Just questioning why the driver's story isnt looked at closely or his role in it all isnt questioned.
 

CaribKaraoke

CaribKaraoke.com Owner
Imix lawyers: Is taunting another driver verbally illegal? Let's say before the video the bikers were impeding the SUV drivers way ( doing nothing illegal at the time) and then the SUV driver called them "Stupid N|&&@$", is that 'Illegal'?

I don't think it is. I think the brake check began the illegal activity.
 
J

Juan Dan

Guest
I just raised the possibility that its not so clear cut as it has been made out to be. I am not running no strong emotion in any direction. Just questioning why the driver's story isnt looked at closely or his role in it all isnt questioned.
its clear cut what happened...

the bikers were looking to have a field day on a long strip...

they blocked entrances to the highway to start their joy ride...

the range dude DISOBEYED THEIR AUTHORITY and or did not slow down

so they FORCED HIM to slow down by getting in front of the bike
or one of them did

and it went from there....

THOSE ARE FACTS...

if they were just riding bout their biz and dont have a history of being ASSHOLES who will get violent
then no problem

in any case 90% of comments I have seen and people I have spoken to have said the bikers were wrong....
they might say the range didnt have to do that yet they UNDERSTAND totally....

not sure what kinds of people would be brave in that situation or not run even more over...

dude even had restraint by NOT having take out couple more of them....
in any case as I said there is somethi9ng I am not getting....
 

LIONESS onda RISE

Registered User
Imix lawyers: Is taunting another driver verbally illegal? Let's say before the video the bikers were impeding the SUV drivers way ( doing nothing illegal at the time) and then the SUV driver called them "Stupid N|&&@$", is that 'Illegal'?

I don't think it is. I think the brake check began the illegal activity.
I don't think IMIX has any atty's

Law clerks do not count
 

LB

Peace Love n Pretty Tings
anyway this feels like its going in circles.
I havent argued that the bikers, even the one who slowed down in front of the driver wasnt wrong. So I dont know why that keeps being pulled into the discussion.
The point everyone jumped on was when they all stopped after he hit the guy, did they threaten the driver unprovoked. From the video you cant say factually that happened. They all sat on their bikes to look back and only one guy approached the driver. It is from there I question if the driver up the ante by chatting sh8t and acting aggressively too. If you are afraid would you do that?

At that point, from a woman's perspective, d*ck slinging is the order of the day and I'm not letting NONE of them off the hook for the melee that ensued.
 

Alpha Unit

Insurgent
Imix lawyers: Is taunting another driver verbally illegal? Let's say before the video the bikers were impeding the SUV drivers way ( doing nothing illegal at the time) and then the SUV driver called them "Stupid N|&&@$", is that 'Illegal'?

I don't think it is. I think the brake check began the illegal activity.
Tauntaing is not a violation in any way.

Deliberately impeding a driver on the highway is in fact a violation.



Carlos my stance is not hard and I am not even being devils advocate. I am not dismissing the drivers reaction just because he felt scared. If evidence later proves that his fear was based on legitimate occurences that were a threat to him and his family then and only then will I entertain the notion that his actions were justified. Maybe you haven't noticed but discussion pertaining to law is where my passions lie. This is about law and legal action, not fear, emotion, or understanding. I read a comment today on facebook where someone says "no judge or jury will award the family of the parylized biker damages" and I was stunned by the level of ignorance in that statement. How is it that someone can proclaim that simply based on the same video footage we all saw is beyond me. People seem extremely biased against bikers and enough that it has clouded their ability to reason. I hate driving among bikers and don't particularly like the antics some display. But I am a reasonable and cerebral person so I doh get stuck on notions of right to be/ do anything or percieved disrespect. So on the road I give them space because for their safety and mine it makes more sense. All this bullshit about not bowing down and all that is stupid. Who does all that macho dumbass posturing benefit? Did the driver and his family benefit from him not "bowing down?"
 

LB

Peace Love n Pretty Tings
All this bullshit about not bowing down and all that is stupid. Who does all that macho dumbass posturing benefit? Did the driver and his family benefit from him not "bowing down?"
See, as a chick that is where nuff argument gets completely lost on me. I dont have enough testosterone get this. He didnt bown down but his wife and kids had to witness him getting his ass beat later on?
 
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