Having a child abroad.....be aware..they may be stateless..

LB

Peace Love n Pretty Tings
Austria is one ah de roughest toughest countries when it comes to this sort of immigration issues. I heard of a Ja woman´s case something like this in Vienna.... Austria says unmarried parents kids get Mother´s citizenship...didn´t know it affects divorcees in that way too...Waw! But I guess it would if the kids were born before your friends got married and divorced before she got her citizenship.

Some of my foreign friends (who have EU passports) in Vienna went to the country of that passport and gave birth and just have the children registered as living in Austria to cut out all them red tape there...but that´s so easy to do if the Mother´s passport is EU...Schengen State...otherwise...Shitstreet
nope. Believe it or not, the kids were conceived during the marriage. They are citizens of where the mother - which is Antigua. She has citizenship now - but I am not 100% sure if she got in during or after marriage. I am thinking during because they were married for a while and she is a cross the t's and dot the is kind of person.

So if the visas are ever denied, the kids would be sent back to a country they have never seen. :( These kids speak German and know very little English - imagine if they were returned to live....yikes

I do agree if she was a citizen of another EU country it would probably be easier for them. She would do as you have mentioned above and skip the hellish red tape I see her go thru. They almost didnt approve one of the kid's visa this yr, and she had to consider making arrangements to send the child back to Antigua but she got the Antiguan govt invovled somehow and it was eventually approved. But she sweated bullets for a while there because what is she to do with her other kids if the youngest was sent back? She hasnt lived on the island for more than a decade. just crazy.
 
T

Toppa_Toppa

Guest
I while back I seriously wanted to have my children in Trinidad regardless of where I was livng at the time.
 

EloquenceInc

Get your passport & come !
The father was born in bermuda while his dad who is Canadian was out there working. This certainly needs to be reviewed. Is not like the man was born in Bermuda with no ties to Canada and acquired Canadian citizenship through some other method other than immediate familial ties.
bermuda i am sure not as strict as canada, all the man had to do was get the kid citizenship through bermuda.

This is why i advocate getting all passports for each country you eligible for...cause you never know when you or your child might need proof of an established tie to that country.

If dem did smart, dem try dem bess have that child born in the country one of them is from and keep tings simple.

Thank god for ireland for that one couple.

Each country is allowed to have its own laws how it sees fit, and maybe some of them make laws to preserve their national identity and culture and not have all these outsiders getting associated by accident of birth.

If that belgian kid is born and raised most of her childhood years in belgium, she going to be a belgian though no matter what the gov't want to call her...cause that will be what she knows and the society that shapes her mind, body, language...sorry fi dem. If she never visits ireland she will have irish CITIZENSHIP but she won't be IRISH.
 

EloquenceInc

Get your passport & come !
yes I definitely feel bad for them because that is such a nightmare. I have a friend in Austria who must renew were children's visas every 5 yrs for them to remain the country that they were born in. But her case was a bit different. She was married to an Austrian and of course didnt think they would divorce.....

anyhow, I still have a hard time with professional level ppl not checking into this kind of thing before the babies arrive.
thank you.

i checked into what it took to get a passport when i am not married and never had been to the father of the child, beforehand, cause i knew it was going to be different from getting one for a child of divorce, where the court clearly states what's to be done cause i had them specify (or rather i specified in our divorce papers that we made and the judge just signed off on it to make it an order).

You can't call yourself intelligent and not think ahead on these types of things.
 

EloquenceInc

Get your passport & come !
I while back I seriously wanted to have my children in Trinidad regardless of where I was livng at the time.
Trinidad not stush like dem countries right? I understand to save the immigration hassle with gettign them into the states, which only gets rougher...if you are a citizen or perm resident...just have them born here.

i wanted my kids born in ja but that was back before they existed and i was all sentimental and assumed the father would be jamaican...so much for that, and seeing how immigration is is much better they born here, and i sort out citizenship by descent down there.
 

EloquenceInc

Get your passport & come !
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Luckily for the situation you wrote about in this case the child can acquire both(this is the case since 2004)) American and Australian citizenship through descent...
@the underlined...long story

I am just reviewing a document presented to me whe i got my British papers it says Dear TC "A childborn to you in the United Kingdom since January 1983 who is not a British citizen may now be entitled to be registered as such a citizen and any child born to you while you remain settled here may be a British citizen at birth.However, you should note that where the parents of a child have never been married to each other British Citizenship can only be derived from the mother."

So wacked up that I can have a child out of wedlock in Britain and the child is automatically a citizen of England...
But a man born and bred 20 generations in Britain, his children born in the UK to a Trini (or foreign woman without british papers) out of wedlock cannot.:rolleyes:

Folks gotta read these fine prints as dotsh as they are to keep outta the problems of the point of the opening thread.
because unless they married there is no sure ting that the child is the father's...the woman in the hospital giving birth to the child but the father is a name just written in on say so if he consents...

i understand the principle still...encourages marriage and stability, but does leave room for the child to belong somewhere if the above does not exist.
 

TC

Steuuuupssss!
thank you.

i checked into what it took to get a passport when i am not married and never had been to the father of the child, beforehand, cause i knew it was going to be different from getting one for a child of divorce, where the court clearly states what's to be done cause i had them specify (or rather i specified in our divorce papers that we made and the judge just signed off on it to make it an order).

You can't call yourself intelligent and not think ahead on these types of things.
Yeah man! Folks gotta cover all angles for their children...one could play de fool and doh read fuh yuh big hard back self, but not fuh de children!these probs could be avoided man.
 
T

Toppa_Toppa

Guest
Trinidad not stush like dem countries right? I understand to save the immigration hassle with gettign them into the states, which only gets rougher...if you are a citizen or perm resident...just have them born here.

i wanted my kids born in ja but that was back before they existed and i was all sentimental and assumed the father would be jamaican...so much for that, and seeing how immigration is is much better they born here, and i sort out citizenship by descent down there.
haha yeah, me too. Now I don't care as much and am more likely to take the pragmatic approach.

They'll definitely have Trini citizenship/passports regardless, though.
 

TC

Steuuuupssss!
nope. Believe it or not, the kids were conceived during the marriage. They are citizens of where the mother - which is Antigua. She has citizenship now - but I am not 100% sure if she got in during or after marriage. I am thinking during because they were married for a while and she is a cross the t's and dot the is kind of person.

So if the visas are ever denied, the kids would be sent back to a country they have never seen. :( These kids speak German and know very little English - imagine if they were returned to live....yikes

I do agree if she was a citizen of another EU country it would probably be easier for them. She would do as you have mentioned above and skip the hellish red tape I see her go thru. They almost didnt approve one of the kid's visa this yr, and she had to consider making arrangements to send the child back to Antigua but she got the Antiguan govt invovled somehow and it was eventually approved. But she sweated bullets for a while there because what is she to do with her other kids if the youngest was sent back? She hasnt lived on the island for more than a decade. just crazy.
:eek:hgosh Oh gaddo! This is a nightmare! I doh know all the details ah dis story here eh...but sounding like the (presuming he is an Austrian citizen)father of these kids either 1.flexed/flexing his muscles or 2. Is a real wicked man, or both.
 

bluedasheen

Registered User
i heard recently that this is also the case for Trinidad and Tobago.
When did this change?

I met a Cuban girl here a couple years ago who got her T&T citizenship through her long dead grandfather. She did a lot of digging up and found out she was eligible to be granted TT citizenship and she did it, bye-bye Cuba and Jamaica. We met in the HC here in Ja and she was trying to get the TT passports for her mother and siblings. See why allyuh must keep allyuh old people papers???
 

LB

Peace Love n Pretty Tings
:eek:hgosh Oh gaddo! This is a nightmare! I doh know all the details ah dis story here eh...but sounding like the (presuming he is an Austrian citizen)father of these kids either 1.flexed/flexing his muscles or 2. Is a real wicked man, or both.
yup! yup! You caught on quick!!

You are 100% correct.
 

TC

Steuuuupssss!
Trinidad not stush like dem countries right? I understand to save the immigration hassle with gettign them into the states, which only gets rougher...if you are a citizen or perm resident...just have them born here.

i wanted my kids born in ja but that was back before they existed and i was all sentimental and assumed the father would be jamaican...so much for that, and seeing how immigration is is much better they born here, and i sort out citizenship by descent down there.
If yuh born in Trini, you iz ah trini...
 

TC

Steuuuupssss!
because unless they married there is no sure ting that the child is the father's...the woman in the hospital giving birth to the child but the father is a name just written in on say so if he consents...

i understand the principle still...encourages marriage and stability, but does leave room for the child to belong somewhere if the above does not exist.
When I asked the question about matriacial citizenship with the UK back then when I got my story I think the answer was something to do with the war way back when and some blah blah blah story about soldiers way back when and blah blah.
 

EloquenceInc

Get your passport & come !
Yeah man! Folks gotta cover all angles for their children...one could play de fool and doh read fuh yuh big hard back self, but not fuh de children!these probs could be avoided man.
and as a matter of fact the SECOND the social security card arrived i sent off immediately for the passport...in case, like how Ottawa did dem people, the laws change!

I know how Murphy's Law work and I don't have TIME for it.
 

TC

Steuuuupssss!
Only if one of your parents Trini, actually!
Is that so?! So dem ex pat kids who born in trini to two expats is not ah trini? Wha bout all dem Chinee workers who make pickney there??? Waw, I didn know dat!

Hang on, chinee children could be called pickney? I does call all chirrun pickney,regardless of race.
 

ladyrastafari

Notchilous
statement a tad incorrect: not a worldwide thing...it's a cultural/belief system thing in certain countries...mainly Asian or those with certain religious backgrounds/systems.....where because the woman is seen as the lesser then she cannot pass on anything, she is there to be mother and child bearer etc etc....

but that in itself is a whole other discussion......
worlwide means happens all over the world.. meaning its not isolated to one region but can be found on different continents...

but you can get the best of both worlds by being born in the VI.. you from the USVI? okay go have the baby in the UK side and transfer your citizenship to the baby so he's both an american and a citizen of the UK.... same for those from the BVI..

That only works if your parents or Grandparents are from the British Virgin Islands, otherwise your child will not get BVI-citizenship or Belonger-status. You do not even have to have your Baby in the BVI if your parents and grandparents are BVI-Belongers you and your Baby will be too. Even if the baby is born in the BVI - it or you will still have to apply for UK Citizenship for the baby.
If a child of a foreigner is born in the BVI - good luck to ever get BVI-Citizenship, some children also have the problem here with obtaining citizenship from their parents side.
For a while if the baby's father was a BVI-lander and not married to the mother the Baby did not get BVI-Citizenship - I heard they supposedly changed that but I am not sure. The Baby had to get the citizenship of the mother and sometimes that was a problem also.
well i guess its one way then... cos if they are BVI and they go over to the USVI and have the baby there, that child is an automatic US citizen and can probably get the derived UK status from their parents.. weird.. but i know a couple of people who have both from there.. i will stick to US soil yes.. lol

I havent read the rest of the thread but this part was going thru my mind the entire time. As professionals working aboard I had the expectation that these ppl, unlike refugees or other disenfranchised folks, would think to have these things reviewed before the baby is born abroad.
To live and work abroad you are used to looking at the legalities of things of making sure your papers are in order, and such. So I am really surprised that they didnt think of checking with their govts beforehand because that would be the first thing I would do if I found myself pregnant and living in another country.

I have friends who returned to Canada before theie babies were born because they didnt want the red tape of their children being born outside Canada. Once the child was born here, they returned to where they were living/working. So professional ppl who dont have the foresight to check these things that I would deem really important, kind of blows my mind.
well they have to return before they are very visibly pregnant or way before the due date .. cos some airlines u know wont let you fly to limit liabilities etc..

Trinidad not stush like dem countries right? I understand to save the immigration hassle with gettign them into the states, which only gets rougher...if you are a citizen or perm resident...just have them born here.

i wanted my kids born in ja but that was back before they existed and i was all sentimental and assumed the father would be jamaican...so much for that, and seeing how immigration is is much better they born here, and i sort out citizenship by descent down there.
if i'm a citizen, the father's a citizen.. why would i go all the way to the caribbean to have the child born in tnt?? when i can simply have them get derived tnt status... that doesnt make sense to me but a child born to US parents overseas in some cases is granted US citizenship at birth so.. might be different.. .. especially if we've been living here since 19 o long or birth.. nostalgia? err no.

doh try that in saudi arabia.. they dont recognize dual citizenship at all.
 

TC

Steuuuupssss!
and as a matter of fact the SECOND the social security card arrived i sent off immediately for the passport...in case, like how Ottawa did dem people, the laws change!

I know how Murphy's Law work and I don't have TIME for it.
Yuh done know!
Question...Are uS citizes regardless of how their US citizenship was acquired, legally allowed dual citizenship?
 

TC

Steuuuupssss!
doh try that in saudi arabia.. they dont recognize dual citizenship at all.
Neither Germany and most of the other Schengen States...You are German citizen only or bust! Minute they get wind that you have German and another..dem tekkin way dem German citizenship from you oui!

I just asked before if dual is legally allowed in the US, do you know?
 
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