Mohandas Gandi

pennywhine

Registered User
commonly known as Mahatma Gandhi, is known world wide as being a simple man of peace and for the people,Dr Martin Luther King seems to have followed his teachings or should i say embraced his way of thinking when it came to the civil rights march,now with this said i want imixers opinion good or bad in regards to these words uttered by Gandhi a man who has(correct me if i am wrong) a statue outiside of the King Museum.....THE KING MUSEUM... I THOUGHT THE MUSEUM WAS FOR MARTIN,WHY IS HIS STATUE THERE....!

"kAFFIRS(BLACKS) ARE AS A RULE UNCIVILLIZED-THE CONVICTS EVEN MORE SO,THEY ARE A TROUBLESOME,VERY DIRTY AND LIVE ALMOST LIKE ANIMALS...MOHANDAS GANDHI MARCH 7 1908"

*forgive me if this has been tackled before on the mix,educate me people...
 

dollbabi

Earth Angel
The man was pro-Indian. Plenty of his ideas may have been sound but that doesn't mean he didn't espouse racist views either.
 

pennywhine

Registered User
klang..... i totally agree,does this mean that Martin did not do all his homework when it came to Gandhi? cause i wonder if he knew the mans true feelings would he be so quick to embrace his views meaningful or not.

dollbabi..... i understand but i wonder how many others are blind to Gandhi true feelings.....esp when it comes to us!
 

dollbabi

Earth Angel
Such commentary from Gandhi is not popularized. But it should come as no surprise because he was a proponent of the caste system, when he is often heralded as being quite the opposite.

A British, Beverley Nicholas writes, Dr. Ambedkar, who told him: "Gandhi is the greatest enemy the untouchables have ever had in India."

And below:

The British Indian Association has always admitted the principle of white domination and has, therefore, no desire, on behalf of the community it represents, for any political rights just for the sake of them . - Gandhi, "them" meaning Africans
 

Klang

Real Patriot
Such commentary from Gandhi is not popularized. But it should come as no surprise because he was a proponent of the caste system, when he is often heralded as being quite the opposite.

A British, Beverley Nicholas writes, Dr. Ambedkar, who told him: "Gandhi is the greatest enemy the untouchables have ever had in India."

And below:

The British Indian Association has always admitted the principle of white domination and has, therefore, no desire, on behalf of the community it represents, for any political rights just for the sake of them . - Gandhi, "them" meaning Africans
to me, that takes away from all the positive he did
 

TC

Steuuuupssss!
Yep! He was racist towards the native Africans. And as it turns out from his diaries he was bi-sexual too.
 

Swollen

Players Play I Coach
Indians in the whole are a racist lot and are very arrogant...

their Teachings and beliefs don't really reflect what they project..


what eva I just type deh alyuh figure it out


all in all every race is racist it's part of our DNA
 

dollbabi

Earth Angel
to me, that takes away from all the positive he did
Dr. Bhimrao Ramji Ambedkar was a far more positive Indian leader than Gandhi. Nothing I have read from him indicates negativity towards African peoples. In fact, he even reached out to W.E.B. DuBois. regarding information about how African-Americans were moving forward in securig certain rights so the Untouchables could possibly follow suit. Not only was he one of the earlier Untouchables to be highly educated but he had a major role in drafting the Indian constitution. He was greater than Gandhi far less recognized.

(Dr. Ambedkar actually turned from Hinduism and embraced Buddhism)
 

Hello BKLYN

Searching For Answers
Did Ghandi ever go through any transformations or epiphanies where he denounced or regretted these kind of views.. sort of like how Malcolm apologized for his vitriol towards white people and Che for his statements towards Blacks?
 
J

Juan Dan

Guest
Yep! He was racist towards the native Africans. And as it turns out from his diaries he was bi-sexual too.
was listening to a mutabaruka episode on youchube
he was discussing jesus and rasta etc
yet someone pressed him on his beliefs as to whether selassies a gad and how selassie a christian and didnt recognize them

now this INTELLECT of the rasta movement starts saying it matters not what selassie believed
they were influenced by howell and bible blah blah blah blah bullshit

so being one who has travelled to etiopia and READ A LOT
KNOWING THE TRUTH

its not liek there isnt internet or one cant research

he still chooses to believe something that contradicts sense

in any case the point being as time goes on and more info gets out there
we learn more things

yet as how one can say there was NO jesus alive 2000 years ago

one can also admit that selassie didnt give a shit bout rastas and their beliefs

as one can admit that gandhhi was a raycist interest filled fish
 

Klang

Real Patriot
Dr. Bhimrao Ramji Ambedkar was a far more positive Indian leader than Gandhi. Nothing I have read from him indicates negativity towards African peoples. In fact, he even reached out to W.E.B. DuBois. regarding information about how African-Americans were moving forward in securig certain rights so the Untouchables could possibly follow suit. Not only was he one of the earlier Untouchables to be highly educated but he had a major role in drafting the Indian constitution. He was greater than Gandhi far less recognized.

(Dr. Ambedkar actually turned from Hinduism and embraced Buddhism)
i will look him up
 

LB

Peace Love n Pretty Tings
Did Ghandi ever go through any transformations or epiphanies where he denounced or regretted these kind of views.. sort of like how Malcolm apologized for his vitriol towards white people and Che for his statements towards Blacks?
I have read many times that he is given the bly because he held those feelings when he was young(er). I dont quite by it because like you asked, there is no where on record that he explicitly denounced his racists views. Given how much he has written and spoken about his philosphy, you would expect to see his so called "change of heart" somewhere on record. It is simply implied that he did. If anyone can show otherwise that would be good.

G.B. Singh makes a good point in regards to this as well:

"Many Blacks are not cognizant of the fact that Gandhi lived in South Africa from 1893 to 1914. He then lived in India from 1915 to 1948. My question to them pertains to Gandhi’s relationship with Blacks precisely at the time when he lived in South Africa for 21 years. One cannot help but discern that there is not a single Black person anywhere in any of the photos of Gandhi during that time. With Black people in the great majority, there is no way that Gandhi had missed noticing them.

Why is this? The answer is very simple: Gandhi hated Black people. Only a few scholars are aware of this background. For all practical purposes, the burden of unraveling this mystery fell upon my shoulders. Here are some of the highlights:

In 1906 Gandhi had participated in a war against Blacks. The Gandhian literature either keeps quiet on the subject or tries to paint him as a great humanitarian who actually helped Blacks by rendering to them urgent medical care. Had he not done so, we are told, many Blacks would have died. While researching the historical documents, however, I found that Gandhi’s participation had nothing to do with “humanitarian concerns” for Black people. He was more concerned with “allying relationships” with the colonial Whites living in Natal colony. Driven by his racial outlook, he went out of his way to enlist Indians to join the army under him to fight for his cause against the Blacks. He also considered Indians living in South Africa to be “fellow colonists” along with the White colonists, over the indigenous Blacks.

We accredit Gandhi with inventing the great technique of Satyagraha, the nonviolent resistance movement to redress wrongs. Satyagraha had its birth in South Africa, and the popular history books laud Gandhi’s successes in his struggles for his people against the system of apartheid. Nothing could be further from the truth, however. We need to ask: If Gandhi’s technique was so good and was of such tremendous importance to the suffering Blacks of South Africa, then why is it that not a single Black newspaper ever mentioned Gandhi’s Satyagraha? Again, as my research led me to delve more deeply into the historical records, I learned that the inception of Gandhi’s Satyagraha had the underpinnings of anti-Black racism. This especially came to light after Gandhi was convicted for breaking the law in 1908, and then sentenced. To his surprise, as he walked into the prison, he noticed “########################s,” and had to live among them. This was bad news to him and it fortified his racist resolve which formed the very foundation of his Satyagraha struggle.

Here is the link to the above. He isnt the first person I have read who has said the same thing

Would the Real Gandhi Please Stand Up?

yet someone pressed him on his beliefs as to whether selassies a gad and how selassie a christian and didnt recognize them

now this INTELLECT of the rasta movement starts saying it matters not what selassie believed
they were influenced by howell and bible blah blah blah blah bullshit
I remember hearing that same interview and had a serious WTH moment with it.
He went on to split hairs by saying that (and I am paraphrasing) Selassie isn't a god exactly but represents the "god" within us since he was the pinnacle of humanity on earth. Therefore when they worship Selassie its the god within them reflected back within themselves through him that they are worshipping........I was mightly impressed with that ability to manipulate wording to mean whatever they wanted it to mean. lol
 
J

Juan Dan

Guest
I have read many times that he is given the bly because he held those feelings when he was young(er). I dont quite by it because like you asked, there is no where on record that he explicitly denounced his racists views. Given how much he has written and spoken about his philosphy, you would expect to see his so called "change of heart" somewhere on record. It is simply implied that he did. If anyone can show otherwise that would be good.

G.B. Singh makes a good point in regards to this as well:

"Many Blacks are not cognizant of the fact that Gandhi lived in South Africa from 1893 to 1914. He then lived in India from 1915 to 1948. My question to them pertains to Gandhi’s relationship with Blacks precisely at the time when he lived in South Africa for 21 years. One cannot help but discern that there is not a single Black person anywhere in any of the photos of Gandhi during that time. With Black people in the great majority, there is no way that Gandhi had missed noticing them.

Why is this? The answer is very simple: Gandhi hated Black people. Only a few scholars are aware of this background. For all practical purposes, the burden of unraveling this mystery fell upon my shoulders. Here are some of the highlights:

In 1906 Gandhi had participated in a war against Blacks. The Gandhian literature either keeps quiet on the subject or tries to paint him as a great humanitarian who actually helped Blacks by rendering to them urgent medical care. Had he not done so, we are told, many Blacks would have died. While researching the historical documents, however, I found that Gandhi’s participation had nothing to do with “humanitarian concerns” for Black people. He was more concerned with “allying relationships” with the colonial Whites living in Natal colony. Driven by his racial outlook, he went out of his way to enlist Indians to join the army under him to fight for his cause against the Blacks. He also considered Indians living in South Africa to be “fellow colonists” along with the White colonists, over the indigenous Blacks.

We accredit Gandhi with inventing the great technique of Satyagraha, the nonviolent resistance movement to redress wrongs. Satyagraha had its birth in South Africa, and the popular history books laud Gandhi’s successes in his struggles for his people against the system of apartheid. Nothing could be further from the truth, however. We need to ask: If Gandhi’s technique was so good and was of such tremendous importance to the suffering Blacks of South Africa, then why is it that not a single Black newspaper ever mentioned Gandhi’s Satyagraha? Again, as my research led me to delve more deeply into the historical records, I learned that the inception of Gandhi’s Satyagraha had the underpinnings of anti-Black racism. This especially came to light after Gandhi was convicted for breaking the law in 1908, and then sentenced. To his surprise, as he walked into the prison, he noticed “########################s,” and had to live among them. This was bad news to him and it fortified his racist resolve which formed the very foundation of his Satyagraha struggle.

Here is the link to the above. He isnt the first person I have read who has said the same thing

Would the Real Gandhi Please Stand Up?



I remember hearing that same interview and had a serious WTH moment with it.
He went on to split hairs by saying that (and I am paraphrasing) Selassie isn't a god exactly but represents the "god" within us since he was the pinnacle of humanity on earth. Therefore when they worship Selassie its the god within them reflected back within themselves through him that they are worshipping........I was mightly impressed with that ability to manipulate wording mean whatever they wanted it to mean. lol
I am still a bit upset
jewish and christian etc scholars have a leg to stand on
they ATTEMPT to be historically correct or make sense

the foundation of rasta belief is complete bullshit

plus howell is said to have declared HIMSELF to be gad and suffereing from mental illness

muta appeared to be a second away from saying "at the time with the info we had and with the babbylon system we believed that"

yet if that be the case MOVE THE FUK ON
teach the youths the TRUTH as it is

not running around with their bullshit

he is gonna have me call him one of these days

cause I want to know if he knows selassie was a ladgeman
and since he says he knows many ladgeman why not get into all that

he liek gandhi, like martin, like web dubois are most likely part of certain groups

in any case its laughable and he has lost a lot of points from me

he is simply saying there is nothing he can teach me or the people
he willing to live a lie and an obvious one
 

dollbabi

Earth Angel
Interesting discussion about Rastafarianism. Honestly, it is a product of the experiences of the diaspora. So naturally some people will hold to it more than others. That's how I try to understand it.
 

Klang

Real Patriot
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6wW2FCxMWPo?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
J

Juan Dan

Guest
Interesting discussion about Rastafarianism. Honestly, it is a product of the experiences of the diaspora. So naturally some people will hold to it more than others. That's how I try to understand it.
Mutabaruka Reasons On Jesus, Haile Selassie and Family - YouTube

its a bit long yet you have to understand my respect for muta is almost like cornell west
viewed as an intellect

he says he doesnt smoke and is a man about knowledge and truths and rights

we cannot progress if we dealing with bs and historical falsity

the future deserve better

plus garvey was burning a fire on selassie LONG TIME

in any case gandhi might have been misguided or had to choose a STRATEGY
as many blak mercans say "we all black"
there is a strategy in that, in that it increases the numbers and people arent broken down into mixed vs full breed etc

ghandis top and first interest was his people/countrymen

its the choice of you and your neighbors starving yet you choose to make sure those in YOUR HOUSE get some food
even whilst your neighbors CRY OUT in hunger
choices decisions and how we are judged as time goes on

plus muta started getting "ignorant" like him angry
he seemed frazzled
 

LB

Peace Love n Pretty Tings
But you all have to remember Gandhi did not have time for many of his own. He was a staunch proponent of the caste system in India, and felt a greater allegiance to white Afrikaaners (and voiced this allegiance too) than he did towards his countryman who were of a lower caste than him. He viewed lower caste Indians with almost the same contempt he held "kaffirs".
 
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