Novel: 'The Liar's Gospel' an alternative view of the Gospels

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Toppa_Toppa

Guest
They disagree with the idea that you NEED a God to do this things, or that one should do these things on the behalf of God or in worship of Him.



I don't need a guise, if I was an atheist I would just come out and say so, I don't fear anyone's judgement or disapproval for what I do or don't believe. It's just that many of my friends are atheists or agnostics and we talk alot about these things.




I know the bible provides a retroactive account of Jesus's lineage and ancestry but I don't know of the Old Testament predicting every single one of his ancestors before he was born, or that they predicted the exact year. Could you provide some proof of that?
The book of Daniel. Specifically Daniel 9:24-27

“There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. 25 And you should know and have the insight [that] from the going forth of [the] word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes·si′ah [the] Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times.
26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Mes·si′ah will be cut off, with nothing for himself.
“And the city and the holy place the people of a leader that is coming will bring to their ruin. And the end of it will be by the flood. And until [the] end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.
27 “And he must keep [the] covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease.
“And upon the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, the very thing decided upon will go pouring out also upon the one lying desolate.”


I can show an explanation of the weeks of years and when the going forth of the word to rebuild and all of it if you like. And how it adds up to 29 C.E. when Jesus was baptised and became the Messiah. It's very detailed.

And the book of Isaiah.

Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore God himself will give YOU men a sign: Look! The maiden herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will certainly call his name Im·man′u·el.

Isaiah 11:1-5 Spoke of Jesus being a descendant of Jesse (David's father).

And 2 Samuel 7:11-16 is another good one, as well as the covenant made to Abraham in Genesis...there are so many, really.

Isaiah prophesied all about Jesus' ministry actually - the response of the Jews towards him, even his death:

“He will make his burial place even with the wicked ones, and with the rich class in his death.” Isaiah 53:9
 

ladyrastafari

Notchilous
all this religious stuff.. i wonder if it were proven that man wrote the bible as a conspiracy tool for controlling the masses, if christians would feel some way about that bit of info? hmm
 

ladyrastafari

Notchilous
doh roll yuh eye. next ting it stick so.. and you look like one a dem felt finger puppets with the eyes that does roll all around . de stick on eyes lol
 

Steupz

Registered User
all this religious stuff.. i wonder if it were proven that man wrote the bible as a conspiracy tool for controlling the masses, if christians would feel some way about that bit of info? hmm
I think they had enough time to prove that, no?
 
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T-MAKAA

Guest
OK. The tone I'm reading came across as one of annoyance and bordering on offended.
Is this the first time u have read posts on this subject from Ananci? Seems that way. The responses is based on the same ole argument he pushes in his arrogant way. This thread is a campaign, not really one that he wants anyone to object to.
 
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T-MAKAA

Guest
all this religious stuff.. i wonder if it were proven that man wrote the bible as a conspiracy tool for controlling the masses, if christians would feel some way about that bit of info? hmm
Well that hasnt been proven. So ummm
 

BacchanalDiva

Registered User
Is this the first time u have read posts on this subject from Ananci? Seems that way. The responses is based on the same ole argument he pushes in his arrogant way. This thread is a campaign, not really one that he wants anyone to object to.
Yea, all regular posters/readers know his opinions..he's written tons of articles and working on a book regarding the same topics...and many of you on here have as strong opinions and have been as vocal about them. Doesn't mean he's arrogant, just him trying to stimulate discourse on a topic that he feels is worthy of continued exploration. If ppl feel its tired then ignore the thread but instead it comes off like ppl taking it as if he's insulting them.
 
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T-MAKAA

Guest
Yea, all regular posters/readers know his opinions..he's written tons of articles and working on a book regarding the same topics...and many of you on here have as strong opinions and have been as vocal about them. Doesn't mean he's arrogant, just him trying to stimulate discourse on a topic that he feels is worthy of continued exploration. If ppl feel its tired then ignore the thread but instead it comes off like ppl taking it as if he's insulting them.
U mean for people who agree with him?
 

Steupz

Registered User
I'll ignore the fluff and get to the fight...

it's not Christianity I have a problem with, it's the militaristic, patriarchal aspect of European culture that was woven into Christianity from its very beginnings that I am deconstructing. The very authoritarian, aloof way "god" is presented in Xianity and Islam; the way the Christian/Islamic view is projected as "the only true way" (and the very fact that the gender-specific terms "God" and "he" are used even though the earliest concepts of the Almighty were all feminine and remained with very strong feminine elements up to 1800 years ago) has to do with the injection of militaristic, male-centred, authoritarian Eurasian ideas of the world into early Xianity.
This is accurate but it's so inconsequential to today's world, so utterly desperate for significance, so artificial in its merit that I can only conclude that your strong adherence to its value must be tied to some personal catharsis.

Whatever guilt you're habouring, allow me to lay hands on you and "take sickness away from the midst of thee".
 

SKBai1991

Registered User
The book of Daniel. Specifically Daniel 9:24-27

“There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. 25 And you should know and have the insight [that] from the going forth of [the] word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes·si′ah [the] Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times.
26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Mes·si′ah will be cut off, with nothing for himself.
“And the city and the holy place the people of a leader that is coming will bring to their ruin. And the end of it will be by the flood. And until [the] end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.
27 “And he must keep [the] covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease.
“And upon the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, the very thing decided upon will go pouring out also upon the one lying desolate.”


I can explain the weeks of years and when the going forth of the word to rebuild and all of it if you like. And how it adds up to 29 C.E. when Jesus was baptised and became the Messiah. It's very detailed.

And the book of Isaiah.

Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore God himself will give YOU men a sign: Look! The maiden herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will certainly call his name Im·man′u·el.

Isaiah 11:1-5 Spoke of Jesus being a descendant of Jesse (David's father).

And 2 Samuel 7:11-16 is another good one, as well as the covenant made to Abraham in Genesis...there are so many, really.

Isaiah prophesied all about Jesus' ministry actually - the response of the Jews towards him, event his death:

“He will make his burial place even with the wicked ones, and with the rich class in his death.” Isaiah 53:9
Interesting. Please explain the way these "Weeks" work, and in what year was the book of Daniel written?
 

Ananci_7

Registered User
all this religious stuff.. i wonder if it were proven that man wrote the bible as a conspiracy tool for controlling the masses, if christians would feel some way about that bit of info? hmm
Most wouldn't; the Gospel of Judas came out, was authenticated and shown to predate the canonical texts and it eh make one ounce of difference. In fact, right her in Trinidad if you can find three churches that even discuss it, yuh find plenty. Most will find some excuse or argument to show that that is besides the point and go right on ahead as if nothing happened.

I'll ignore the fluff and get to the fight...


This is accurate but it's so inconsequential to today's world, so utterly desperate for significance, so artificial in its merit that I can only conclude that your strong adherence to its value must be tied to some personal catharsis.

Whatever guilt you're habouring, allow me to lay hands on you and "take sickness away from the midst of thee".
Oh really? Your denying it doesn't change the fact that in the politics of the US, Democrat and especially the Republicans, is informed by that mindset. The evangelicals have especially found receptive ears in the Republican party and have been using that to push through legislation that rolls back much of the gains that have been made in reproductive rights, to cite but one example, based on their narrow understanding of what constitutes morality. A significant part of US foreign policy in the so-called Middle East is based on romanticised ideas of the jews and biblical injunctions.

Perhaps your disputing of what I said stems from the fact that no longer is the claim of Christian exclusive superiority openly said. But that is only because this view has been imposed on our consciousness for so long that it is almost an unspoken assumption. Rest assured that the mindset is still very much alive.
 
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Toppa_Toppa

Guest
Interesting. Please explain the way these "Weeks" work, and in what year was the book of Daniel written?
If you're interested in the entire genealogy of Jesus as recorded in the Bible, Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and Greek Scriptures (New testament) I can show you the list too. The Jews kept meticulous records of ancestry.

The book of Daniel was completed around 536 BCE and it spans 618-536 BCE.

Anyway - Seventy Weeks

The majority of Bible scholars agree that the “weeks” of the prophecy are weeks of years. Some translations read “seventy weeks of years” (AT, Mo, RS); the Tanakh, a new Bible translation published in 1985 by the Jewish Publication Society, also includes this rendering in a footnote.

As to the beginning of the 70 weeks, Nehemiah was granted permission by King Artaxerxes of Persia, in the 20th year of his rule, in the month of Nisan, to rebuild the wall and the city of Jerusalem. (Ne 2:1, 5, 7, 8) In his calculations as to the reign of Artaxerxes, Nehemiah apparently used a calendar year that began with the month Tishri (September-October), as does the Jews’ present civil calendar, and ended with the month Elul (August-September) as the 12th month. Whether this was his own reckoning or the manner of reckoning employed for certain purposes in Persia is not known.

“The Going Forth of the Word.” The prophecy says there would be 69 weeks of years “from the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Leader.” (Da 9:25) Secular history, along with the Bible, gives evidence that Jesus came to John and was baptized, thereby becoming the Anointed One, Messiah the Leader, in the early autumn of the year 29 C.E.

Calculating back from this point in history, it can be determined that the 69 weeks of years began in 455 B.C.E. In that year the significant “going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem” took place.

In Nisan (March-April) of the 20th year of Artaxerxes’ rule (455 B.C.E.), Nehemiah petitioned the king: “If your servant seems good before you, . . . send me to Judah, to the city of the burial places of my forefathers, that I may rebuild it.” (Ne 2:1, 5) The king granted permission, and Nehemiah made the long journey from Shushan to Jerusalem. On about the fourth of Ab (July-August), after making a night inspection of the walls, Nehemiah gave the command to the Jews: “Come and let us rebuild the wall of Jerusalem, that we may no longer continue to be a reproach.” (Ne 2:11-18) Thus, “the going forth of the word” to rebuild Jerusalem, as authorized by Artaxerxes, was put into effect by Nehemiah in Jerusalem that same year. This clearly establishes 455 B.C.E. as the year from which the 70 weeks would begin to count.
The repair work on the walls was completed on the 25th day of Elul (August-September), in just 52 days. (Ne 6:15) As to the first seven “weeks” (49 years), Nehemiah, with the help of Ezra and, afterward, others who may have succeeded them, worked, “in the straits of the times,” with difficulty from within, among the Jews themselves, and from without, on the part of the Samaritans and others. (Da 9:25) The work was evidently completed within 49 years (seven weeks of years) to the extent necessary, and Jerusalem and its temple remained for the Messiah’s coming.

Messiah’s Arrival After ‘Sixty-Nine Weeks.’ As to the following “sixty-two weeks” (Da 9:25), these, being part of the 70 and named second in order, would continue from the conclusion of the “seven weeks.” Therefore, the time “from the going forth of the word” to rebuild Jerusalem until “Messiah the Leader” would be 7 plus 62 “weeks,” or 69 “weeks”—483 years—from the year 455 B.C.E. to 29 C.E. As mentioned above, in the autumn of that year, 29 C.E., Jesus was baptized in water, was anointed with holy spirit, and began his ministry as “Messiah the Leader.”

“Cut off” at the half of the week. Gabriel further said to Daniel: “After the sixty-two weeks Messiah will be cut off, with nothing for himself.” (Da 9:26) It was sometime after the end of the ‘seven plus sixty-two weeks,’ actually about three and a half years afterward, that Christ was cut off in death on a torture stake, giving up all that he had, as a ransom for mankind. (Isa 53:8) Evidence indicates that the first half of the “week” was spent by Jesus in the ministry.

etc...etc...
 

Steupz

Registered User
Oh really? Your denying it doesn't change the fact that in the politics of the US, Democrat and especially the Republicans, is informed by that mindset. The evangelicals have especially found receptive ears in the Republican party and have been using that to push through legislation that rolls back much of the gains that have been made in reproductive rights, to cite but one example, based on their narrow understanding of what constitutes morality. A significant part of US foreign policy in the so-called Middle East is based on romanticised ideas of the jews and biblical injunctions.
Now you're being dishonest, which probably doesn't bother you as much because you aren't tethered to the same moral anchors, we Christians are.
I don't expect you to make my arguments for me but at the very least, polish your intellectualism with balance.
You speak of rolling back gains as if abortion is a gift, as if birth control has Christians rubbing our crucifixes with pursed lips, as if sex education is a significant worry.

But you never mention the gains for the infidels with regard to school prayer and religious symbolism.

And that bit about Jews... stop! I hesitate to even speak to this because I am not informed to any acceptable degree but surely the Middle East policy is more about Israel being a satellite for Democracy and the economic influence of Jews rather than a biblical mandate.
Ananci, blink when you see these grassy knolls, get CPEP to cut them, anything, just don't believe in them because these conspiracies are your mind's creations..

Perhaps your disputing of what I said stems from the fact that no longer is the claim of Christian exclusive superiority openly said. But that is only because this view has been imposed on our consciousness for so long that it is almost an unspoken assumption. Rest assured that the mindset is still very much alive.
Who cares about superiority, we're about majority and Christianity is growing. Even in England, where Churches were being sold a few years ago, the tide has turned, if silence means anything.
 
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Toppa_Toppa

Guest
Oh, so Steupz was more worthy of a response than me? :cray:

I've got your number, Ananci - and I will continue to call it.
 

Steupz

Registered User
Oh, so Steupz was more worthy of a response than me? :cray:

I've got your number, Ananci - and I will continue to call it.
I am top of the head thing, your comments are more detailed so he has to research his response to you.
Ananci will not let you get away. He will snatch your mitre just now.
 
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Toppa_Toppa

Guest
I am top of the head thing, your comments are more detailed so he has to research his response to you.
Ananci will not let you get away. He will snatch your mitre just now.
Hmph
 
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