Soca Proponents wha all you saying?

Ushawishi

Registered User
In fact to done this whole argument of whether or not there is indian influences in the creation of soca...let's use the very song you posted first from lord shorty and juxtapose it with my little tassa crew. Here is the tassa crew clip that every trini recognizes as one of the classic tassa riddims.

http://www.ecaroh.info/tassarhythms06.mp3

Now here is lord shorty introducing his new sound...listen keenly to the first riddim introduced with the bass drum as he "builds" the song.

<object width="350" height="135"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.islandmix.com/flash/mp3player_single.swf?userid=11934&songid=4945&path=http://www.islandmix.com/"> </param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"> </param> <embed src="http://www.islandmix.com/flash/mp3player_single.swf?userid=11934&songid=4945&path=http://www.islandmix.com/" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="350" height="135"> </embed> </object><div style='float:left;'><a rel='nofollow' href='http://www.islandmix.com/avroom/songdetails.php?audioId=4945' style='text-decoration:none;cursor:pointer;'>Vibrations Groove - Lord Shorty</a></div>

Now do you still doubt what shorty was saying. let the man rest in peace nah man.
I eh gone lie ... I had to lend the OP keen ears to hear de distinct tassa drumming .... as he builds the rhythm there is a boom boom pause boom boom pause pattern from the bass drum unique/distinct to tassa...

Any way even with tassa drums cadence-lypso sound like cadence-lypso....

Please provide a cadence-lypso song from that era that do not sound like this... you know what make it interesting from any year....

Big up de Proponents ...
 

dedetriniking

Registered User
I see you breds. One of the few original detractors to sort of get it and was man enough to admit it.

At least you were able to admit that you couldn't hear the influence before but after it was laid out for you...you were able to hear it.

The bass drum...that boom boom pause riddim.....was eventually joined in structure (not notes but riddim) with the bass guitar and dominated the sound of soca music for years and it is still present in many soca songs today.

At this point i'm not interested in no long drawn out argument with the usual suspects anymore. Either you get it or you don't.

 
Last edited:
Ok the proponents and the detractors need to meet halfway in this argument,

Detractors need to realize that yes they may be right, Shorty did not fully give recognition to Cadence and even maybe Soul/Disco in his definition of Soca.

Proponents I think are realizing that the definition of Soca given by Shorty is limited, and I feel like some of them realize that.

The idea of Soca beat engrained in African American music of the 70's is a bit far fetched to me, because you need that Calypso base to be Soca and the Calypso was not there for the Aframs.

Also, detractors must realize that early Soca sound varied, please refer to my earlier position.
 

Ushawishi

Registered User
Awaiting Mrs Vega , Socapro , and Triniagada...

Big up de proponents...

Hope dey get around to de ansa today...
 

VINCYPOWA

Registered Member
I eh gone lie ... I had to lend the OP keen ears to hear de distinct tassa drumming .... as he builds the rhythm there is a boom boom pause boom boom pause pattern from the bass drum unique/distinct to tassa...

Any way even with tassa drums cadence-lypso sound like cadence-lypso....

Please provide a cadence-lypso song from that era that do not sound like this... you know what make it interesting from any year....

Big up de Proponents ...
There is NO TASSA DRUMMING HEARD in that AUDIO.

The BASS DRUM that you're HEARING in the AUDIO is the TYPICAL SOUND you get when the DRUM PLAYER is using the KICK STAND to hit the BASS DRUM.

Here is a PICTURE for EXAMPLE.


Then right after, the guy Shorty said is PAUL, start hitting the HIGH HAT.


Then he said, then I call on my PERCUSSION PLAYERS, TIMOTHY WATKINS and ANTHONY CHARLES, on the CONGOS.

I will STOP right there.

We know that NO TASSA DRUM is PLAYED in this AUDIO.

What is PROFOUND in the AUDIO is when he said TAKE ME TO A SOCA GROOVE.

I HOPE the TRAUMATIZED TRINIS know what is a GROOVE.

I have ALREADY EDUCATED them on what is a GROOVY or GROOVY too many times to COUNT, but it seems like they just do not GET IT.

I told them that GROOVY or a GROOVE can be heard in any GENRE of MUSIC.

Moreover, whether the TEMPO is LOW or SHORT, the song can be GROOVY, because a GROOVE has to do with the RHYTHMIC FEEL you get from the INTERACTION between DIFFERENT MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS.

I WANT the TRAUMATIZED TRINIS to PAY ATTENTION to when SHORTY says LETS GO TO A GROOVE...LETS GO TO A SOCA GROOVE and then LISTEN to what TAKES PLACE.

Like I said, you can hear the GROOVE or GROOVY in R&B, SOUL, ROCK n ROLL, JAZZ, the BLUES, HIP HOP, REGGAE, CALYPSO, etc.

That was why I have STATED that it is STUPID to refer to the genre called SOCA as GROOVY SOCA, as if it is a SEPARATE GENRE, when in FACT it is NOT.

The FACT of the MATTER is this; since the TRAUMATIZED TRINIS like to QUOTE SHORTY whenever these DISCUSSIONS come up, I hope they listen to him in that audio.

I HOPE the TRAUMATIZED TRINIS know what is a GROOVE or what is refer to as GROOVY. It has NOTHING to do with the TEMPO being slow. It all has to do with the FEEL you get from the RHYTHMIC PATTERN of the INSTRUMENTS.

And with that, I REST MY CASE again.
 

Socapro

Repect Our Soca Pioneers
I eh gone lie ... I had to lend the OP keen ears to hear de distinct tassa drumming .... as he builds the rhythm there is a boom boom pause boom boom pause pattern from the bass drum unique/distinct to tassa...

Any way even with tassa drums cadence-lypso sound like cadence-lypso....

Please provide a cadence-lypso song from that era that do not sound like this... you know what make it interesting from any year....

Big up de Proponents ...
A lot of the cadence-lypso music (which later evolved into zouk via Kassav') that I was hearing by the mid to late 70's was already incorporating what I would refer to as a Sokah/Soca style beat on the bass drum and with the traditional cadence effect on the cymbals of the drum-kit.
This classic here by Grammacks has a soca beat on the bass drum as well as the cadence effect on the cymbals of the drum-set which is a beautiful example of the soca beat and cadence-lypso marriage.

Grammacks - Mi Deda
<iframe width="550" height="400" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/R7wHo6NAPGY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Before the mid 70's (which was coincidentally before Shorty's visit to Dominica) most of the cadence music that I was aware of and hearing on the radio, etc, had the distinctive cadence effect on the cymbals of the drum-kit but the beat on the bass drum was usually more of a disco or calypso style beat.

This Explainer track is a good example of what cadence-lypso music sounded like to me without the soca beat prior to the mid to late 70’s.

Explainer - More You Look, Less You See
<iframe width="550" height="400" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KqQr5rUHE4g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not sure if the fusion of the sokah beat into cadence-lypso was just a natural progression of the music or if it had any connection with Shorty's visit to Dominica but that is the slight rhythmic change I detected in cadence-lypso from the mid 70's onwards that brought it even nearer to its Trinidadian soca brother rhythm wise.

That demo recording by Shorty was recorded in late 1976 and was released in early 1977 on his album on Semp Records entitled Sokah Soul of Calypso.
I have the album on vinyl and here is an introduction to the album on the album jacket written by journalist Ivor Ferreira about Shorty and his new Sokah sound.

The King of Sokah, has to be the Lord Shorty. In 1974 when Shorty started his move towards a more progressive style of calypso, thousands cried him down. They all said that he was on the wrong road and his change was going to hamper calypso more than anything else.

The firm mind of Shorty never gave in. The entertainer stuck to his idea and continued to improve his efforts towards a new beat. Now just three years after, Shorty and Sokah has made an impact internationally that not even reggae was able to do when it first came out.

As an entertainer Shorty has travelled near and far never leaving his audience unhappy. His Vibrations International Orchestra is an example of the high standard of musicians Shorty selects to work with. Sokah is the soul of calypso and Shorty is the soul of Sokah.

With the release of this record you are now holding in your hands, Shorty will certainly take up from where 'Sweet Music' left off last year. If even you are not a Sokah fan, I am sure that after you have explored the cuts on this record you will become a fan of the music which has rocked the market and the music industry.

Sokah, Sokah, Sokah.
Ivor Ferreira


Coincidentally I believe Ivor Ferreira was the same journalist who had earlier written a newspaper article about Shorty's sokah and made the spelling error of Sokah as Soca. So this album review/intro done by the same journalist was his attempt to make amends for the spelling error by getting the spelling right in his album review on Shorty's album jacket.

Here are some more credits from the album.

Arrangements: Frankie Callender, Lord Shorty & Vibrations International.
MUSICIANS:
Keyboard & Synthizer: Frankie Callender
String Ensemble: Carl 'Beaver' Henderson
Guitar: Junior Wharwood
Bass: Frank 'Bambi' Holder
Drums: Paul Rose
Trumpets: Ainsworth Grant, Tom Paton
Reeds: Septimus Alexander, Jude Bethel, Dennis Wilkinson & Hendren Boucaud
Congas: Anthony 'Grobo' Charles
Percussion: Timothy 'Baron' Watkins, Frank Holder, Junior Wharwood
Background Vocals: Gail McLean, Grace Eccles, Phyllis Joseph, Timothy 'Baron' Watkins, Frank Holder, Junior Wharwood & Ella Andell.

ALBUM TRACKS:
“SOKAH” The Soul of Calypso
Just Play
It’s Alive
The Cost of Friendship
Virus of Happiness
Vibrations Groove
Quest
Sex and the Fairer Sex
Claudia
Final Page

All songs written, composed and sung by Garfield Blackman (Lord Shorty).
Recorded at Semp Studios Ltd, 67 Mucurapo Road, Port of Spain, Trinidad.

I suspect if you were to interview any of these musicians who are still alive today and ask them if they were playing cadence-lypso on that album they would most likely give you a look of bemusement that translates to, are you for real or some sort of comedian?

Bless :drinks:
 
Last edited:

Seawall

Registered User
Not a good example with all the Americanisms. This is kaiso funk. There was plenty of this stuff being recorded in the late 60's early 70's. When I first heard Shorty's music, I was turned off because he sounded so American.

<embed src="https://www.box.com/embed/v6x8jalrjfipjxu.swf" width="466" height="400" wmode="opaque" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always">

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mrVrvVk4MZU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<embed src="https://www.box.com/embed/hrx8zudtklg30ei.swf" width="466" height="400" wmode="opaque" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always">

<embed src="https://www.box.com/embed/4y6ntf5vdy8q1mb.swf" width="466" height="400" wmode="opaque" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always">
 

Tha Biz

Registered User
A lot of the cadence-lypso music (which later evolved into zouk via Kassav') that I was hearing by the mid to late 70's was already incorporating what I would refer to as a Sokah/Soca style beat on the bass drum and with the traditional cadence effect on the cymbals of the drum-kit.
This classic here by Grammacks has a soca beat on the bass drum as well as the cadence effect on the cymbals of the drum-set which is a beautiful example of the soca beat and cadence-lypso marriage.

Grammacks - Mi Deda
<iframe width="550" height="400" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/R7wHo6NAPGY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Before the mid 70's (which was coincidentally before Shorty's visit to Dominica) most of the cadence music that I was aware of and hearing on the radio, etc, had the distinctive cadence effect on the cymbals of the drum-kit but the beat on the bass drum was usually more of a disco or calypso style beat.

This Explainer track is a good example of what cadence-lypso music sounded like to me without the soca beat prior to the mid to late 70’s.

Explainer - More You Look, Less You See
<iframe width="550" height="400" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KqQr5rUHE4g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not sure if the fusion of the sokah beat into cadence-lypso was just a natural progression of the music or if it had any connection with Shorty's visit to Dominica but that is the slight rhythmic change I detected in cadence-lypso from the mid 70's onwards that brought it even nearer to its Trinidadian soca brother rhythm wise.

That demo recording by Shorty was recorded in late 1976 and was released in early 1977 on his album on Semp Records entitled Sokah Soul of Calypso.
I have the album on vinyl and here is an introduction to the album on the album jacket written by journalist Ivor Ferreira about Shorty and his new Sokah sound.

The King of Sokah, has to be the Lord Shorty. In 1974 when Shorty started his move towards a more progressive style of calypso, thousands cried him down. They all said that he was on the wrong road and his change was going to hamper calypso more than anything else.

The firm mind of Shorty never gave in. The entertainer stuck to his idea and continued to improve his efforts towards a new beat. Now just three years after, Shorty and Sokah has made an impact internationally that not even reggae was able to do when it first came out.

As an entertainer Shorty has travelled near and far never leaving his audience unhappy. His Vibrations International Orchestra is an example of the high standard of musicians Shorty selects to work with. Sokah is the soul of calypso and Shorty is the soul of Sokah.

With the release of this record you are now holding in your hands, Shorty will certainly take up from where 'Sweet Music' left off last year. If even you are not a Sokah fan, I am sure that after you have explored the cuts on this record you will become a fan of the music which has rocked the market and the music industry.

Sokah, Sokah, Sokah.
Ivor Ferreira


Coincidentally I believe Ivor Ferreira was the same journalist who had earlier written a newspaper article about Shorty's sokah and made the spelling error of Sokah as Soca. So this album review/intro done by the same journalist was his attempt to make amends for the spelling error by getting the spelling right in his album review on Shorty's album jacket.

Here are some more credits from the album.

Arrangements: Frankie Callender, Lord Shorty & Vibrations International.
MUSICIANS:
Keyboard & Synthizer: Frankie Callender
String Ensemble: Carl 'Beaver' Henderson
Guitar: Junior Wharwood
Bass: Frank 'Bambi' Holder
Drums: Paul Rose
Trumpets: Ainsworth Grant, Tom Paton
Reeds: Septimus Alexander, Jude Bethel, Dennis Wilkinson & Hendren Boucaud
Congas: Anthony 'Grobo' Charles
Percussion: Timothy 'Baron' Watkins, Frank Holder, Junior Wharwood
Background Vocals: Gail McLean, Grace Eccles, Phyllis Joseph, Timothy 'Baron' Watkins, Frank Holder, Junior Wharwood & Ella Andell.

ALBUM TRACKS:
“SOKAH” The Soul of Calypso
Just Play
It’s Alive
The Cost of Friendship
Virus of Happiness
Vibrations Groove
Quest
Sex and the Fairer Sex
Claudia
Final Page

All songs written, composed and sung by Garfield Blackman (Lord Shorty).
Recorded at Semp Studios Ltd, 67 Mucurapo Road, Port of Spain, Trinidad.

I suspect if you were to interview any of these musicians who are still alive today and ask them if they were playing cadence-lypso on that album they would most likely give you a look of bemusement that translates to, are you for real or some sort of comedian?

Bless :drinks:
lol why dont u post a cadence song by a dominican artist instead of the explainer
 

Seawall

Registered User
A lot of the cadence-lypso music (which later evolved into zouk via Kassav') that I was hearing by the mid to late 70's was already incorporating what I would refer to as a Sokah/Soca style beat on the bass drum and with the traditional cadence effect on the cymbals of the drum-kit.
This classic here by Grammacks has a soca beat on the bass drum as well as the cadence effect on the cymbals of the drum-set which is a beautiful example of the soca beat and cadence-lypso marriage.

Grammacks - Mi Deda
<iframe width="550" height="400" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/R7wHo6NAPGY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Before the mid 70's (which was coincidentally before Shorty's visit to Dominica) most of the cadence music that I was aware of and hearing on the radio, etc, had the distinctive cadence effect on the cymbals of the drum-kit but the beat on the bass drum was usually more of a disco or calypso style beat.

This Explainer track is a good example of what cadence-lypso music sounded like to me without the soca beat prior to the mid to late 70’s.

Explainer - More You Look, Less You See
<iframe width="550" height="400" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KqQr5rUHE4g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not sure if the fusion of the sokah beat into cadence-lypso was just a natural progression of the music or if it had any connection with Shorty's visit to Dominica but that is the slight rhythmic change I detected in cadence-lypso from the mid 70's onwards that brought it even nearer to its Trinidadian soca brother rhythm wise.

That demo recording by Shorty was recorded in late 1976 and was released in early 1977 on his album on Semp Records entitled Sokah Soul of Calypso.
I have the album on vinyl and here is an introduction to the album on the album jacket written by journalist Ivor Ferreira about Shorty and his new Sokah sound.

The King of Sokah, has to be the Lord Shorty. In 1974 when Shorty started his move towards a more progressive style of calypso, thousands cried him down. They all said that he was on the wrong road and his change was going to hamper calypso more than anything else.

The firm mind of Shorty never gave in. The entertainer stuck to his idea and continued to improve his efforts towards a new beat. Now just three years after, Shorty and Sokah has made an impact internationally that not even reggae was able to do when it first came out.

As an entertainer Shorty has travelled near and far never leaving his audience unhappy. His Vibrations International Orchestra is an example of the high standard of musicians Shorty selects to work with. Sokah is the soul of calypso and Shorty is the soul of Sokah.

With the release of this record you are now holding in your hands, Shorty will certainly take up from where 'Sweet Music' left off last year. If even you are not a Sokah fan, I am sure that after you have explored the cuts on this record you will become a fan of the music which has rocked the market and the music industry.

Sokah, Sokah, Sokah.
Ivor Ferreira


Coincidentally I believe Ivor Ferreira was the same journalist who had earlier written a newspaper article about Shorty's sokah and made the spelling error of Sokah as Soca. So this album review/intro done by the same journalist was his attempt to make amends for the spelling error by getting the spelling right in his album review on Shorty's album jacket.

Here are some more credits from the album.

Arrangements: Frankie Callender, Lord Shorty & Vibrations International.
MUSICIANS:
Keyboard & Synthizer: Frankie Callender
String Ensemble: Carl 'Beaver' Henderson
Guitar: Junior Wharwood
Bass: Frank 'Bambi' Holder
Drums: Paul Rose
Trumpets: Ainsworth Grant, Tom Paton
Reeds: Septimus Alexander, Jude Bethel, Dennis Wilkinson & Hendren Boucaud
Congas: Anthony 'Grobo' Charles
Percussion: Timothy 'Baron' Watkins, Frank Holder, Junior Wharwood
Background Vocals: Gail McLean, Grace Eccles, Phyllis Joseph, Timothy 'Baron' Watkins, Frank Holder, Junior Wharwood & Ella Andell.

ALBUM TRACKS:
“SOKAH” The Soul of Calypso
Just Play
It’s Alive
The Cost of Friendship
Virus of Happiness
Vibrations Groove
Quest
Sex and the Fairer Sex
Claudia
Final Page

All songs written, composed and sung by Garfield Blackman (Lord Shorty).
Recorded at Semp Studios Ltd, 67 Mucurapo Road, Port of Spain, Trinidad.

I suspect if you were to interview any of these musicians who are still alive today and ask them if they were playing cadence-lypso on that album they would most likely give you a look of bemusement that translates to, are you for real or some sort of comedian?

Bless :drinks:

The cult of Ras Shorty. I wonder who really composed and arranged the songs on the album above.
 

Socapro

Repect Our Soca Pioneers
The cult of Ras Shorty. I wonder who really composed and arranged the songs on the album above.
Maybe it was Maestro ent?!

Why not take in the album credits and don't allow your anti Shorty agenda to handicap your reading skills?

That is the reason why you lost my respect as someone who I can have a balanced logical discussion with regards this subject. :drinks:
 

Ushawishi

Registered User
@ Socapro So instead of admitting dat Cadence-lypso still sounds like cadence-lypso even with tassa drums its now an argument dat de sokah beat was incorporated into cadence-lypso... belle beff...lol.

so same question different words....

Any how even with Sokah beat in full effect ... cadence-lypso still sound like cadence-lypso....

Can you provide a song which shows dat sokah beat alters de sound of cadence-lypso to make it sound like a different genre?...because according to both you and Lord Shorty Sokah with cadence song like cadence but all you both calling it sokah...
interestingly Soca with cadence songing like cadence but cadence wif soca still songing like cadence.

you have de wrong journalist by de way de one you should seek out is a very influential political man...ill give a hint "B".

@ Swagger so much for your theory dat de proponents realizing shit...

@ VP I already stated somewhere on imix dat i know enough music to say no to de boom boom pause being tassa but if a tassa man tell you is dat he do and he show it to you dat is how he did it dats him... other people have already shown dat they did it differently...maybe i should have said distinct/unique to a Trinidadian only not knowing anything else but i was honestly trying to avoid people's knowledge/ignorance in hopes dat a jem like de one Socapro is dropping would pop up...

I was hoping for a couple of those trini cadence tunes to drop...

bring cadence songs dat doh song like vibrations groove please.


big up de proponents still...
 
@ Socapro So instead of admitting dat Cadence-lypso still sounds like cadence-lypso even with tassa drums its now an argument dat de sokah beat was incorporated into cadence-lypso... belle beff...lol.

so same question different words....

Any how even with Sokah beat in full effect ... cadence-lypso still sound like cadence-lypso....

Can you provide a song which shows dat sokah beat alters de sound of cadence-lypso to make it sound like a different genre?...because according to both you and Lord Shorty Sokah with cadence song like cadence but all you both calling it sokah...
interestingly Soca with cadence songing like cadence but cadence wif soca still songing like cadence.

you have de wrong journalist by de way de one you should seek out is a very influential political man...ill give a hint "B".

@ Swagger so much for your theory dat de proponents realizing shit...

@ VP I already stated somewhere on imix dat i know enough music to say no to de boom boom pause being tassa but if a tassa man tell you is dat he do and he show it to you dat is how he did it dats him... other people have already shown dat they did it differently...maybe i should have said distinct/unique to a Trinidadian only not knowing anything else but i was honestly trying to avoid people's knowledge/ignorance in hopes dat a jem like de one Socapro is dropping would pop up...

I was hoping for a couple of those trini cadence tunes to drop...

bring cadence songs dat doh song like vibrations groove please.


big up de proponents still...
well my knowledge of Cadence is limited so I cannot have too much input of what was going on in that genre at that time..dont want to delve too deep into that cuz I would just be talking out of my ass.
 

Socapro

Repect Our Soca Pioneers
@ Socapro So instead of admitting dat Cadence-lypso still sounds like cadence-lypso even with tassa drums its now an argument dat de sokah beat was incorporated into cadence-lypso... belle beff...lol.

so same question different words....

Any how even with Sokah beat in full effect ... cadence-lypso still sound like cadence-lypso....

Can you provide a song which shows dat sokah beat alters de sound of cadence-lypso to make it sound like a different genre?...because according to both you and Lord Shorty Sokah with cadence song like cadence but all you both calling it sokah...
interestingly Soca with cadence songing like cadence but cadence wif soca still songing like cadence.


you have de wrong journalist by de way de one you should seek out is a very influential political man...ill give a hint "B".

@ Swagger so much for your theory dat de proponents realizing shit...

@ VP I already stated somewhere on imix dat i know enough music to say no to de boom boom pause being tassa but if a tassa man tell you is dat he do and he show it to you dat is how he did it dats him... other people have already shown dat they did it differently...maybe i should have said distinct/unique to a Trinidadian only not knowing anything else but i was honestly trying to avoid people's knowledge/ignorance in hopes dat a jem like de one Socapro is dropping would pop up...

I was hoping for a couple of those trini cadence tunes to drop...

bring cadence songs dat doh song like vibrations groove please.


big up de proponents still...
Ushawishi, that bit I highlighted above was never my argument.
That is a red-herring argument you are creating to detract from the point I have been making.

My point was and remains that Shorty was doing soca and developed his soca formula before he made his trip to Dominica hence cadence-lypso did not become a factor in soca as an added element until after his visit.

Everything else I have said about soca maybe having an influence on cadence-lypso is just mere speculation just like how you guys have been speculating that Shorty could have fused cadence-lypso with calypso in his development of soca without any recorded evidence and also while getting your recording dates completely wrong.

Btw I also informed you that Shorty never made any recordings with Lord Tokyo but you never thanked me for that information which I spent good hours of my time researching on your behalf.

Anyway as I have already concluded Soca and Cadence-lypso are brother and sister genres with the same mother Calypso but neither gave birth to the other.
However both styles have regularly been fused with each other since they were developed and that is all good for Caribbean unity amongst musicians, sharing the culture around and all that good stuff.

Btw is cadence-lypso still alive and kicking in Dominica these days or has Zouk and Bouyon totally taken over? I don’t hear much cadence-lypso these days.
Is cadence-lypso like old-time kaiso and ska dying a natural death or is it only being played by the older generation of musicians who are dying out? :scratch
 
Last edited:

Ushawishi

Registered User
well my knowledge of Cadence is limited so I cannot have too much input of what was going on in that genre at that time..dont want to delve too deep into that cuz I would just be talking out of my ass.
will dis personality of yours change dis to imply "I" or one or more of dem still proponents dat still on de gospel?

Proponents I think are realizing that the definition of Soca given by Shorty is limited, and I feel like some of them realize that
 
will dis personality of yours change dis to imply "I" or one or more of dem still proponents dat still on de gospel?
well at the end of the day, people gonna have their opinions, but this is one of the best threads on this topic in the history of IMIX.

The history of Soca is interesting and dynamic so anyone who is a Soca fan should read this thread.

BOOM!
 

Ushawishi

Registered User
Ushawishi, that bit I highlighted above was never my argument.
That is a red-herring argument you are creating to detract from the point I have been making.

My point was and remains that Shorty was doing soca and developed his soca formula before he made his trip to Dominica hence cadence-lypso did not become a factor in soca as an element added until after his visit.

Everything else I have said about soca maybe having an influence is just mere speculation just like how you guys have been speculating that Shorty could have fused cadence-lypso with calypso in his development of soca without any recorded evidence and while getting your recording dates completely wrong.
Btw I also informed you that Shorty never made any recordings with Lord Tokyo but you never thanked me for that information which I spent good hours of my time researching on your behalf.

Anyway as I have already concluded Soca and Cadence-lypso are brother and sister genres with the same mother Calypso but neither gave birth to the other.
However both styles have regularly been fused with each other since they were developed and that is all good for Caribbean unity amongst musicians.

Btw is cadence-lypso still alive and kicking in Dominica these days or has Zouk and Bouyon totally taken over? I don’t hear much cadence-lypso these days.
Is like old time calypso or ska dying a natural death or is only played by the older generation of musicians who are dying out?
groove vibrations is unrecorded or you a tone deaf DJ?I really try not to get personal with you but you insisting.... Why should I fank you for information dat you do not have?I suggested dat if your Trinidad mentors do not have the information you seek try elsewhere... cant expect to research de same places for this stuff.... anyhow de challenge is de same question posed I am going to ask a mod to merge your thread into this one lets make it interesting....

Calypso never die dominica... stop trying to outwit me on arguements I am uninterested in having with you...
 

VINCYPOWA

Registered Member
groove vibrations is unrecorded or you a tone deaf DJ?I really try not to get personal with you but you insisting.... Why should I fank you for information dat you do not have?I suggested dat if your Trinidad mentors do not have the information you seek try elsewhere... cant expect to research de same places for this stuff.... anyhow de challenge is de same question posed I am going to ask a mod to merge your thread into this one lets make it interesting....

Calypso never die dominica... stop trying to outwit me on arguements I am uninterested in having with you...
I TOLD U HE WILL TRY to SHIT TALK U TO DEATH when he CANNOT PROVIDE EVIDENCE, which is usually OFTEN.
 

Socapro

Repect Our Soca Pioneers
groove vibrations is unrecorded or you a tone deaf DJ?I really try not to get personal with you but you insisting.... Why should I fank you for information dat you do not have?I suggested dat if your Trinidad mentors do not have the information you seek try elsewhere... cant expect to research de same places for this stuff.... anyhow de challenge is de same question posed I am going to ask a mod to merge your thread into this one lets make it interesting.... Calypso never die dominica... stop trying to outwit me on arguements I am uninterested in having with you...
Ushawishi, I am not trying to outwit you or trying to play games like some fellas on here love to do.
Why is it that you can ask me for information but I mustn't ask you for info as well otherwise I trying to outwit you?

It is a fact that Shorty did no recordings with Lord Tokyo and you guys have been promoting false information regards that fact here on Imix.

Here is Shorty's early works covering the period you are interested in where he was suposed to have recorded with Lord Toyko. It never happened my friend, total fanatsy!!

Lord Shorty's Discography
1963 7"; Sixteen Commandments/Tribute to Capildeo Telco TW 3185

Sixteen Commandments
Tribute to Capildeo

1964 7"; Fish is Fish/Cloak and Dagger Telco TW 3200

Fish is Fish
Cloak and Dagger

1964 7"; Types of Men/Untrained Jurors Telco TW 3214

Types of Men
Untrained Jurors

1964 7"; Why Do We Have to Part/Female Opposition Telco TW 3233

Why Do We Have to Part
Female Opposition

1965 7"; Imagine This/Must Come Back Telco TW 3258

Imagine This
Must Come Back

1965 7"; Go Naked in The World/False Women Telco TW 3263

Go Naked in The World
False Women

1966 7"; Indian Singers/Comic Strip Telco TW 3302

Indian Singers
Comic Strip

1969 7"; Fat Pants Fathers/Tales of the Bull Pistles Antillana 923
Arranged by Ed Watson
A Fat Pants Fathers
B Tales of the Bull Pistles

1970 7"; Belchin Belchin/Only a Heart Gardette GAR 001
Arranged by Ed Watson
A Belchin Belchin
B Only a Heart

1970 7"; Don't Chook Your Mouth/Ah Believe She Antillana 946
Arranged by Ed Watson
A Don't Chook Your Mouth
B Ah Believe She

1971 7"; Consuela/Cat Kissing Antillana 960

A Consuela
B Cat Kissing

1971 7"; Cover/Wo Be on to Man Antillana 961

Cover
Wo Be on to Man

1972/3 7"; Indrani/Calypso is Ours Shorty S-002, Caravan CX-165


One Indrani
Two Calypso is Ours

1973 7"; The Art of Making Love Shorty S-003, Caravan CX-160, Sakanda SAK-737

A The Art of Making Love Part-One
B The Art of Making Love Part-Two

1972/3 LP Shorty's Gone Gone Gone Island Series FP-1006
Composers:

A-1 Soul Calypso Music
A-2 This Song
A-3 Give Me
A-4 Calypso Is Ours
A-5 Art Of Making Love
B-1 Gone, Gone, Gone
B-2 Bajan Girl
B-3 Loving You
B-4 I Who Have Nothing Ben E. King
B-5 Indrani

1974 7"; Loving You (Is The Best Thing)/Gone Gone Gone Shorty S-005

1 Loving You (Is The Best Thing)
2 Gone Gone Gone

1974 7"; Drum Spirits/True King of Carnival Shorty S-009

Drum Spirits
True King of Carnival

1974 LP The Love Man, Carnival '74 Hits Shorty SLP 1000
Arranged by Ed Watson

One-1 Kalo Gee Bull Bull
One-2 P.M. Sex Probe
One-3 Child Father
One-4 Jour Vert
One-5 Wonder of the World
Two-1 Call of Carnival
Two-2 How to Prevent Horn
Two-3 Carnival Farewell
Two-4 Running
Two-5 Feteing Time

1974/5 7"; Endless Vibrations/Not Because Shorty S 006
Arranged by Ed Watson
A Endless Vibrations
B Not Because

1975 7"; We Ting/Love The High Foluting Way Shorty S 008
Arranged by Art DeCoteau
A We Ting
B Love The High Foluting Way

1975 7"; Gone Gone Gone/Loving You Caravan CX-185

1 Gone Gone Gone
2 Loving You

1975 7"; Endless Vibration/Drum Spirits Island Series CX225

Endless Vibration
Drum Spirits

1975 LP Endless Vibrations Shorty SLP-1001
Arranged by Ed Watson

A/1-1 Endless Vibrations
A/1-2 Zena
A/1-3 We Ting
A/1-4 Drum Spirits
A/1-5 True King of Carnival
B/2-1 Love the High - Foluting Way
B/2-2 To Kill a Cat
B/2-3 Not Because
B/2-4 Bajan Gal
B/2-5 Soul Calypso Music

1975 LP Love in the Caribbean Shorty SLP 1002
Shorty and Friends
Arranged by Shorty, Lancelot Layne, Junior Brown, Nearlin Taitt Composers:

1-1 When Will It Come (Peace in the World)
1-2 Who Is She
2-1 I Wonder Miller/Miller/Shorty
2-2 I Who Have Nothing Donida-Mogol-Leiber-Stoller

There is more but I'll stop here!
As you can see no recordings with Lord Shorty and Lord Tokyo as it never happened!

You can search from now till the ends of the earth and you will not find a recording with Lord Shorty and Lord Tokyo because it never happened!
 
Last edited:
Top